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Blindside6
15-04-10, 10:04
I have just started as an entry level ref and have ref’d a dozen games at 3rd team non-league level, so my apologies if this is a daft question!

Quick throw in’s are rare (both sides usually prefer to take a quick breather!) but I am unsure exactly when the QT becomes no longer an option because it is ‘marked up’.

If one opposition player is marking the thrower do I blow the whistle for a line-out? Or is the quick throw still an option until two opposition players are contesting?

OB..
15-04-10, 10:04
Technically you require two players from each side for a formed lineout. One opponent is not enough.

In practice you tend to get players milling around, so if it is messy, disallow a QT.

A QT can be taken well away from the line of touch, but if a lineout has (more or less) formed at the line of touch, disallow a QT elsewhere.

Blindside6
15-04-10, 10:04
Thanks, I think it was the ‘more or less’ bit I was after.
I can’t imagine players at my level bemoaning the finer law technicalities of exactly how many players, etc!

Dixie
15-04-10, 11:04
I have just started as an entry level ref and have ref’d a dozen games at 3rd team non-league level, so my apologies if this is a daft question!

Quick throw in’s are rare (both sides usually prefer to take a quick breather!) but I am unsure exactly when the QT becomes no longer an option because it is ‘marked up’.

If one opposition player is marking the thrower do I blow the whistle for a line-out? Or is the quick throw still an option until two opposition players are contesting?
Welcome to the forums, Blindside6. Your question is not daft, and in fact we all benefit hugely from revisiting the questions that new arrivals to the refereeing game throw our way. They force us to review stuff we may have allowed to become articles of faith, and we often find we've been totally wrong for years! One such came up very recently, when we discovered that in the 7's game, the scored-against side is required to congregate at their 10m line instead of behind the posts. Most of us had been doing that wrong for 15 years!

So there are no daft questions - just ones that have been asked before. Keep asking the easy questions - everyone benefits. OB gives you the correct answer that will suffice in almost all cases you'll encounter.

Let me just throw in a potential quirk; has a lineout formed if the ball goes into the touch on the 10m line, a quickie seems possible on the 22m line, as a result of which two from each side rush to the 22m line, with everyone else following, all foresaking the 10m line as irrelevant at that point?

Blindside6
15-04-10, 11:04
Umm, I suppose referencing OB's advice I would blow up for a line out on the basis of players are there to contest it.
The players from the throwing in side also arriving there would seem to suggest that both teams have now in effect accepted the 22m line as the contested area. Although I would still bring the line out back to where the ball went out on the 10m line.

The concern for me had been (now answered) if one player marks up the thrower do I blow the whistle? Until now I would have done and could have found myself in dispute with someone with more sound knowledge of the laws!

FlipFlop
15-04-10, 11:04
Blindside6:

You blow the whistle when the ball goes into touch, not when the lineout is formed.

As for allowing/not allowing a quick throw. The law requires 2 from either side to be there for a lineout to be formed (hence prevent a quick throw). But see below...

Also note - a team may take a throw quickly (note not a quick throw - i.e. from the mark, straight etc.) at anytime.

Rule of thumb for the lower levels (not law): a QUICK throw is exactly that - taken quickly. If the team don't go reasonably quickly, such that most players are going to assume it is the normal lineout - then stop the Quick Throw. Most players on both sides will thank you.

Phil E
15-04-10, 12:04
My two penny worth.

Whistle is blown as soon as the ball goes into touch. This does not prevent the QT, although some players may interpret it that way.

As well as the advice given already remember that an opposition player cannot stand inside the 5m gap to prevent the QT from being taken. That is a PK offence.

Taff
15-04-10, 12:04
... As well as the advice given already remember that an opposition player cannot stand inside the 5m gap to prevent the QT from being taken. That is a PK offence.Sorry, but I thought it was a FK offence - not a PK offence.


19.2 QUICK THROW-IN
(h) At a quick throw-in, a player must not prevent the ball being thrown in 5 metres.
Sanction: Free Kick on 15-metre line


... Quick throw in’s are rare (both sides usually prefer to take a quick breather!) but I am unsure exactly when the QT becomes no longer an option because it is ‘marked up’...

What gets my grey cells working overtime when I TJ games is making sure the QT is between where the ball went to touch and their own goal-line - not between where the lineout may have been and their goal-line. There could be a massive difference between the 2 places. And watch out for the ball touching a spectator or a coach before the QT. The first few times it happens can easily catch you out. :wink:

Simon Thomas
15-04-10, 13:04
Sorry, but I thought it was a FK offence - not a PK offence.

And watch out for the ball touching a spectator or a coach before the QT. The first few times it happens can easily catch you out. :wink:

It is FK offence, but for a wildly jumping blocking jumper with windmill arms and after a preventative "get out of 5m channel", I see it quite justified to escalate to a PK from FK


The other nasty one that can catch you out is the use of a second ball - ball just sitting there by touchline, or with increasing use of mini-midi / youth ball boys (even at levels 7 & 8) quick pass of fresh ball to QT thrower.

Phil E
15-04-10, 13:04
Sorry, but I thought it was a FK offence - not a PK offence.

You are quite correct, however as ST has stated......

On a couple of occasions it has happened to me the non throwing player has stood nose to nose with the QT player dodging from side to side to prevent the QT.

To me that is deliberate offending and therefore worthy of a PK under Law 10.

Davet
15-04-10, 14:04
In answer to Dixie's question - the Line of Touch is the 10m line. If 2 players from each side congregate on the 22 then the QT is still, in Law, on. Though if taken the coach may have words later...

When the ball goes into touch the referee MUST blow the whistle - this simply indicates touch. It does not prevent the QT.

If there are not 2 players from each side present at LoT (and other conditions are met) then the QT may be taken. I discussed this with a coach recently who felt that this allowed the throwing team to deliberately avoid putting 2 players on LoT, and thus keep the QT option alive, which he felt was somehow unfair - my comment was "Exactly so - so your guys need to stay awake..."

Phil E
15-04-10, 14:04
this allowed the throwing team to deliberately avoid putting 2 players on LoT, "

(g) Failure to form a lineout. A team must not voluntarily fail to form a lineout.
Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line

:chin:

Taff
15-04-10, 15:04
It is FK offence, but for a wildly jumping blocking jumper with windmill arms and after a preventative "get out of 5m channel", I see it quite justified to escalate to a PK from FK.


.. On a couple of occasions ... the non throwing player has stood nose to nose with the QT player dodging from side to side to prevent the QT. To me that is deliberate offending and therefore worthy of a PK under Law 10.Point taken.

OB..
15-04-10, 16:04
(g) Failure to form a lineout. A team must not voluntarily fail to form a lineout.
Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line

:chin:

I don't see it makes sense to sanction a team for failure to form a lineout when the ball is some distance away and they will need to get back if there is a QT. That particular bit of law is however useful for dealing with huddles.

Phil E
15-04-10, 16:04
That particular bit of law is however useful for dealing with huddles.

I like Huddles :love: :love: :love:

1142

Taff
15-04-10, 17:04
I like Huddles :love:I'm sure you do, but I seriously doubt those shorts are IRB approved. :D

Davet
15-04-10, 17:04
Phil E

Wot OB sez.

But that's a GOOD huddle

Dixie
15-04-10, 17:04
I'm sure you do, but I seriously doubt those shorts are IRB approved. :D It's perfectly good underwear. Not even long legged!