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Davet
31-08-06, 13:08
19.16(d) A player taking part in the lineout must either join the ruck or maul, or retire to the offside line and stay at that line, Otherwise that player is offside.

Penalty: Penalty Kick on the 15-metre line



Definitions
Players taking part in the lineout known as participating players.

Players taking part in the lineout are the player who throwsin and an immediate opponent, the two players waiting to receive the ball from the lineout and the lineout players.




So - ball is thrown in, caught and brought safely to ground where the usual maul begins.

Hookers and Scrum halves MUST both join in the maul, or get back 10m from Line of Touch?
Really?

Bryan
31-08-06, 14:08
19.16 OFFSIDE AT RUCKS OR MAULS IN THE LINEOUT

(a) When a ruck or a maul develops in a lineout the offside line for a player taking part in the lineout no longer runs through the ball. The offside line is now the hindmost foot of that player’s team in the ruck or maul.

(b) However, for players not taking part in the lineout, the offside line is still 10 metres behind the line of touch. For these players, the lineout does not end when a ruck or maul develops.

(c) It ends when the ruck or maul leaves the line of touch. For this to happen, all the feet of all the players in the ruck or maul must have left the line of touch.

(d) A player taking part in the lineout must either join the ruck or maul, or retire to the offside line and stay at that line, Otherwise that player is offside.

Once a ruck or maul forms, the offside line for players taking part in the ineout now runs through the hindmost foot typical of any other ruck and maul.


So, we have a 5 man lineout, and a reciever and thrower. Once the ball is thrown in and a ruck develops, if the thrower and reciever are NOT part of the ruck, then they CANNOT retreat to 10m back as they would be leaving the line-out early and liable to penalty. Similarly, players NOT taking part in the lineout cannot move up 10 m until the lineout is over.

There are 2 offside lines at the lineout per team. One for participating players in the lineout, and one for non-participating players. Cool eh?

Hope this helps,
-Bryan

Davet
01-09-06, 16:09
That's good Bryan.

I didn't believe it when I read it - I was looking something else up and it caught my eye.

Lesson - read the whole thing not just the snippet.

OB..
01-09-06, 21:09
:o Of course.

Mike Whittaker
01-09-06, 23:09
"Lineout players are the players who form the two lines that make a line out"

Note a 'receiver' is defined separately as someone who catches etc the ball from a lineout player.

(All are of course participating players taking part in the line out)

'Peeling off ' refers to lineout players, not participating players, and would not appear to include 'receivers' in its scope.

As it is peeling off players who must keep within 10m, does the restriction on receivers dropping back 10m also apply?

Perhaps a receiver is classified as someone who has 'approached' the line of touch, but of course they seldom ever get there...?

And if we try to consider why the law is as it is, is there any reason why a receiver should not be allowed to drop back to the 10m??

OB..
02-09-06, 11:09
I'm afraid Law 19 is badly written. ( I know that will come as a shock to you all. :D )

The definitions are insufficient, and they are used inconsistently. I believe the IRB is aware of this, but we know that no changes will be made before the World Cup.

Mike Whittaker
02-09-06, 11:09
I'm afraid Law 19 is badly written. ( I know that will come as a shock to you all. :D )

The definitions are insufficient, and they are used inconsistently. I believe the IRB is aware of this, but we know that no changes will be made before the World Cup.

Agreed OB, but I think in most areas we know what they are trying to achieve..

My question remains. If the 'receiver' at a lineout retreats to the 10 before the line out is over (or just blatantly doesn't peel) do you ding him for offside?

Personally I think one is on dodgy ground to ding him, and can't think why it would be a problem.