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View Full Version : FIXED:Question Reference Number: 294



Ovey
05-01-11, 12:01
Blue #12 is just outside of their 22 and passes across the 22-metre line to Blue #14. Blue #14 kicks directly into touch at Gold's 10-metre line. What do you do?
Incorrect - You answered A.
The correct answer is: B.
19.1b : When a defending player plays the ball from outside the 22 and it goes into that player’s 22 or in-goal area without touching an opposition player and then that player or another player from that team kicks the ball directly into touch before it touches an opposition player, or a tackle takes place or a ruck or maul is formed, there is no gain in ground. This applies when a defending player moves back behind the 22 metre line to take a quick throw-in and then the ball is kicked directly into touch.

A. Award a line-out to Gold opposite the place where Blue kicked the ball.
B. Award a line-out to Gold where the ball went into touch.
C. Award a line-out to Blue opposite the place where Blue #14 kicked the ball.
D. Award a line-out to Blue where the ball went into touch.

I thought that if a ball was carried or passed back in to the 22 and kicked out on the full, that it resulted in a line-out level with where the kicker last played the ball? I'm confused now!!

chopper15
05-01-11, 12:01
For B to be the ' correct' answer the ball would have to be out of play and passed back over the 22 for his team mate to take a free kick from the indicated mark.:hap:

OB..
05-01-11, 13:01
I agree the correct answer is A. I don't think the quiz has been fully updated.
For B to be the ' correct' answer the ball would have to be out of play and passed back over the 22 for his team mate to take a free kick from the indicated mark.:hap:
:confused: What free kick? What indicated mark? Blue 12 is outside the 22, passing the ball back into it.

chopper15
05-01-11, 20:01
I agree the correct answer is A. I don't think the quiz has been fully updated.
:confused: What free kick? What indicated mark? Blue 12 is outside the 22, passing the ball back into it.

Why the :confused:, OB. If the answer to the scenario described is B, then my answer is correct. You're assuming this happened during play so as to make your answer correct.

Phil E
05-01-11, 20:01
Why the :confused:, OB. If the answer to the scenario described is B, then my answer is correct. You're assuming this happened during play so as to make your answer correct.

But B isn't the right answer.
A is the right answer. The quiz hasn't been fully updated.

I thought that had been explained.
I can explain again in words of one syllable if it will help?

The umpire
05-01-11, 20:01
For B to be the ' correct' answer the ball would have to be out of play and passed back over the 22 for his team mate to take a free kick from the indicated mark.:hap:

Then blue#12 wouldn't be described as "just outside of their 22" he'd be "off the playing area" which would be completely different question.

chopper15
05-01-11, 20:01
[QUOTE=Phil E;143085]But B isn't the right answer.
A is the right answer. The quiz hasn't been fully updated.

I thought that had been explained.
I can explain again in words of one syllable if it will help?[/


Phil, my scenario justified B as being correct. Why belittle my answer?:sad:

Phil E
05-01-11, 20:01
But B isn't the right answer.
A is the right answer. The quiz hasn't been fully updated.

I thought that had been explained.
I can explain again in words of one syllable if it will help?


Phil, my scenario justified B as being correct. Why belittle my answer?:sad:

A is right.
B is not.
Quiz is bust.

I can say it slower as well if that helps?

chopper15
05-01-11, 21:01
Then blue#12 wouldn't be described as "just outside of their 22" he'd be "off the playing area" which would be completely different question.

Free kick awarded just inside 22. Ball loose just outside still in FoP. :hap:

. . . . why the attitude? I'm only offering an alternative viewpoint?:sad:

Phil E
05-01-11, 21:01
Free kick awarded just inside 22. Ball loose just outside still in FoP. :hap:

Have you been drinking?

chopper15
05-01-11, 21:01
A is right.
B is not.
Quiz is bust.

I can say it slower as well if that helps?

What on earth's with you Phil? I recognise and accept what you're saying.

Not knowing the quiz was incorrect, I was only justifying why B could be a correct answer.:sad:

chopper15
05-01-11, 21:01
Have you been drinking?

Can B be the answer to the scenario I proposed and was also described in Ovey's thread, Phil . . . please?

Phil E
05-01-11, 21:01
Can B be the answer to the scenario I proposed and was also described in Ovey's thread, Phil . . . please?

Here's an idea. Pick any answer from the quiz, then make up your own fantasy question to make the answer fit (in your world).

Do this a few times then open your own website with "Choppers Fantasy Rugby Quiz (no law knowledge required)".

That's what the ref rote.

chopper15
05-01-11, 23:01
You just don't get it do you, Phil? But then it really doesn't matter.:hap:

Phil E
05-01-11, 23:01
You just don't get it do you, Phil? But then it really doesn't matter.:hap:

......and there was me thinking you were the one who just didn't get it?

chopper15
05-01-11, 23:01
Very true.:hap:

dave_clark
05-01-11, 23:01
Free kick awarded just inside 22. Ball loose just outside still in FoP. :hap:

. . . . why the attitude? I'm only offering an alternative viewpoint?:sad:

free kick taken from the wrong place. scrum down, opposition ball.

i don't understand your alternative viewpoint. have you made up a scenario and then answered it? well done.

chopper15
05-01-11, 23:01
free kick taken from the wrong place. scrum down, opposition ball.

i don't understand your alternative viewpoint. have you made up a scenario and then answered it? well done.

My comment was to clarify thread #6 to justify the incorrect answer, dave.:hap:

By the way what exactly was the corrected question?

OB..
06-01-11, 02:01
My comment was to clarify thread #6 to justify the incorrect answer, dave.:hap:
You came up with a scenario in your own mind in order to make B the correct answer. Unfortunately you did not bother to state it, merely bringing in a couple of points not raised in the original question. When I asked about them you did not explain.

Eventually you got round to it.

Free kick awarded just inside 22. Ball loose just outside still in FoP. :hap:
Yes, that would work, but why not say so to start with?

I still regard it as unhelpful, since there is no hint at all in the question of the scenario you have devised.

Drift
06-01-11, 04:01
What on earth's with you Phil? I recognise and accept what you're saying.

Not knowing the quiz was incorrect, I was only justifying why B could be a correct answer.:sad:

Chopper if the situation you described was happening it would've been described in the question.
You are wrong, A is the correct answer

chopper15
06-01-11, 19:01
Chopper if the situation you described was happening it would've been described in the question.
You are wrong, A is the correct answer

The ball is in play and, Blue #12 is just outside of their 22 and passes across the 22-metre line to Blue #14. Blue #14 kicks directly into touch at Gold's 10-metre line. What do you do?

I don't see my underlined described in the question either, Oli. You had to assume that to get the correct answer.

. . . and, OB, the answer was obvious to us all. I happened to be the first in with an alternative tongue-in-cheek comment which I threaded with a smile.

So please tell me why I was immediately subjected to a continuous attack by a bunch of mean-minded refs out to intimidate, belittle and ridicule . . . you, who I would've thought more perceptive than the headstrong youngsters, amongst them.:sad:

OB..
06-01-11, 20:01
So please tell me why I was immediately subjected to a continuous attack by a bunch of mean-minded refs out to intimidate, belittle and ridicule . . . you, who I would've thought more perceptive than the headstrong youngsters, amongst them.:sad:
I am happy to discuss various problems (and have done at length) but I am not interested in that sort of accusation, so I will not respond to it.

chopper15
06-01-11, 20:01
. . . salt in the wound. :sad:


PS. Just watched BM competing in BBC's Celebrity Mastermind . . Chosen subject ' Genesis' pop group. 14pts.

chopper15
06-01-11, 21:01
. . . . I am not interested in that sort of accusation, so I will not respond to it.

Who are the monitors, OB?:sad:

Account Deleted
06-01-11, 22:01
Sorry Chopper I have, at times, tried to give you some defence / support but you really are barking.

Davet
06-01-11, 23:01
Chopper's perfectly right, if that's the answer, the question could have been...

But we were given the question, and the assumption that this was during play rather after a dead ball is pretty reasonable. All Chopper's rewrite demonstrates is that unlike a PK, a ball kicked out on the full from inside the 22 at a FK does not gain ground. The bit about passing back would be completely irrelevant.

So - yes it's an assumption that the ball is in play, but frankly it's the only scenario that makes any sense.

Phil E
06-01-11, 23:01
All Chopper's rewrite demonstrates is that unlike a PK, a ball kicked out on the full from inside the 22 at a FK does not gain ground.

Sorry Davet, have I read that correctly?

If I take a FK from inside my own 22 and kick it directly into touch, you are saying no gain in ground?

Davet
07-01-11, 14:01
Sorry, that should have read outside. Lazy and in haste (me not anyone else)

If the mark was outside the 22 and the player took the FK direct to touch from inside the 22 then no gain in ground.

If the mark was inside the 22, then gain in ground from an FK direct to touch



Free kick awarded just inside 22. Ball loose just outside still in FoP. :hap:


And re-reading Chopper's post he actually says if the mark was just inside the 22, so he'd be wrong anyway.

Rit Hinners
07-01-11, 21:01
Geeze guys give Chopper a break.

He was only attempting to describe a scenario where "B" would be the correct answer.

It didn't confuse me at all. I could tell exactly what he was getting at, right from the start. Why couldn't you?

chopper15
07-01-11, 21:01
Told that B was the correct answer I interpreted the scenario to suit the answer, ie,

The ref awards a kick just inside the 22. The ball is lying just outside the 22 in the FoP. A team-mate tosses the ball back to his kicker who boots it downfield into touch. LO to opposition where ball went into touch.

You refs uncharitably decided to interpret the answer given by the quiz master as wrong by assuming the ball was in play.

I just don't understand why you should want to make such an issue of your betrayal of a fellow ref.:sad:

dave_clark
07-01-11, 21:01
Told that B was the correct answer I interpreted the scenario to suit the answer

i think that's where the mis-understanding occurred. i read it that you decided B was correct, and then decided to make up a scenario to agree this.

chopper15
07-01-11, 22:01
i think that's where the mis-understanding occurred. i read it that you decided B was correct, and then decided to make up a scenario to agree this.

But, dave, there was nothing in the scenario to contradict the interpretation I used to justify B.:hap:

Phil E
07-01-11, 23:01
But, dave, there was nothing in the scenario to contradict the interpretation I used to justify B.:hap:

I am now convinced that you are either being deliberately obstructive, or are just plain stupid.

There was ONE question and a selection of answers. The quiz gave the wrong answer from the selection. It was obvious to all of us.

The quiz DID NOT have a selection of questions (are ask you to make up your own) to fit the WRONG answer.

chopper15
08-01-11, 01:01
I am now convinced that you are either being deliberately obstructive, or are just plain stupid..


To justify your accusation, Phil, what IS in the scenario that you seem to be convinced that contradicts the interpretation I used to justify B as an acceptably correct answer?

And why the petulance? It's not really worth getting so worked up about, and it's such an unpleasant reflection on you personally.:hap:

OB..
08-01-11, 02:01
The restriction on kicking to touch when the ball has been passed back to a team mate dates from 2009. Before then the answer would have been B without resort to chopper’s inferences. The original author of the quiz compiled it long before 2009. When he decided to sell it a few years ago, it eventually ended up with Robbie Burns of this parish. I don’t think it has ever been fully updated. Hence the problem.


But, dave, there was nothing in the scenario to contradict the interpretation I used to justify B.:hap:
If the correct answer was meant to be B under today’s laws, then it was an appalling question, since it omitted two crucial facts: that the ball was dead when passed, and that a free kick had been awarded. There is no hint of either in the question, and the natural meaning is that the ball was alive when passed back. At best the question would have been ambiguous since there is no way of proving which scenario was meant. “9W” was a famous case of giving the answer and asking for the question, but it is not the normal approach in a quiz.


And why the petulance? It's not really worth getting so worked up about, and it's such an unpleasant reflection on you personally.:hap:
You do yourself no favours with such comments. Why can’t we just discuss the problem itself? I asked you a couple of questions to find out what was in your mind, but you chose not to answer either of them in your first reply.
It didn't confuse me at all. I could tell exactly what he was getting at, right from the start. Why couldn't you?In my case it was because I knew the background, and that there have been several other cases where the original answer has been overtaken by changes in the laws. Others will have seen them as well.

If you are allowed to infer unstated facts, then there is a case for C and D as well (Gold player touched the ball in flight). Where would that get us?

chopper15
09-01-11, 13:01
Originally Posted by chopper15
And why the petulance? It's not really worth getting so worked up about, and it's such an unpleasant reflection on you personally.

Ref. OB comment: You do yourself no favours with such comments. Why can’t we just discuss the problem itself? I asked you a couple of questions to find out what was in your mind, but you chose not to answer either of them in your first reply.

OB, mine was a conciliatory comment as Phil had previously queried if I was drunk or 'just plain stupid'. So why only me for the friendly but embarrassing reprimand?

He knows I'm not the latter.:norc: Would it be anything to do with me being an 'outsider'?:sad:

Phil E
09-01-11, 13:01
Would it be anything to do with me being an 'outsider'?:sad:

Pathetic!

OB..
09-01-11, 15:01
Would it be anything to do with me being an 'outsider'?:sad:

No, it has absolutely nothing to do with it at all. You are the only one who keeps bringing that up.

chopper15
09-01-11, 19:01
No, it has absolutely nothing to do with it at all. You are the only one who keeps bringing that up.

So why, as a respected and senior monitor, do you choose to chide me and not a fellow ref for his insensitive remarks?

And, Phil, regarding your latest 'pathetic' charge you confer on me.

Please realise that I have already been put on notice with a charge of infraction and have 3 penalty points threatening me just on a few threaders' say so (no names offered) with no redress, so perhaps you will understand why I whinge.

I have no wish to get 'ensnared' again in a hurry, so am just trying to pursue a little even handedness.:hap:

Account Deleted
09-01-11, 20:01
Stay on topic then please!

chopper15
09-01-11, 20:01
Stay on topic then please!

OK, ATTR.

Ref #13. Much appreciated. Thanks.