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Chunky Charvis
08-02-11, 00:02
What is a good way of managing the shortened lineout?

I ask the sides to tell me if they want to shorten the lineout, but there is no requirement to do so is there?

I had this on Saturday: Blue have a lineout and call "5 man sir." Red match numbers. But Blue actually had 6! This was due to stupidity on their part rather than gamesmanship, so i gave a free kick against Blue for numbers.

But if it is gamesmanship, and they are deliberately calling 5 when they want to hoodwink the opposition and have 6, is this a free kick offence?

ddjamo
08-02-11, 00:02
no CC it's not. also, the throwing in side may have more (non throwing in side less). my advice is to not concern yourself too much with the numbers and work more and setting a nice big gap and getting play going quickly and cleanly. have a word with them next lineout if you see anything that may become an issue. think big gap.

Ian_Cook
08-02-11, 05:02
Blue call 5, Red matches with 5 and Blue actually has 6.... not a problem

Blue calls 6, Red matches with 6 and Blue actually has 5.... problem.

This could be a bit of gamesmanship that I would not let happen. Don't let the line-out proceed, and get them to sort it.

"Blue, you told me you were having six and you only have five... what's it going to be?"

This will let them fix it if it was a mistake, and will make them realise that you aren't having it if they are trying it on.

Dixie
08-02-11, 09:02
Chunky, I broadly take the view that in a thinking man's game, even forwards should be able to count to seven. If there's a standard lineout set and the non-throwing side has more than the throwing side, FK them for stupidity.

Where it gets difficult is when the throwing side like to stand off, and then wander in, with the throw happening immediately they arrive. In such circumstances, I'll ask how many so the oppo can set themselves. If I were to get the wring answer, I'd PK for unsporting behaviour.

Dickie E
08-02-11, 09:02
Where it gets difficult is when the throwing side like to stand off, and then wander in, with the throw happening immediately they arrive. In such circumstances, I'll ask how many so the oppo can set themselves. If I were to get the wring answer, I'd PK for unsporting behaviour.

what if they don't answer?

Dixie
08-02-11, 09:02
what if they don't answer? I don't recall it happening, but they are under no obligation to tell me. As they wander in, I'll hold up their throw while I have a count, and give the oppo a chance to adjust as necessary - and they don't get to leave the lineout and re-wander back in.

Taff
08-02-11, 10:02
.... "Blue, you told me you were having six and you only have five... what's it going to be?" This will let them fix it if it was a mistake, and will make them realise that you aren't having it if they are trying it on.Then you FK them for leaving a LO early while it's forming. :D

No. That was a joke BTW. :wink:

crossref
08-02-11, 10:02
what is the Law on numbers trying to achieve?
and why did they did they reject the ELV that did away with it?

Dickie E
08-02-11, 11:02
and why did they did they reject the ELV that did away with it?


AIUI the short lineout ceased to be a feature and all lineouts ended up being 7 on 7.

Phil E
08-02-11, 12:02
Chunky, I broadly take the view that in a thinking man's game, even forwards should be able to count to seven.

Actually we only need to be able to count to 3. :chin:

1 pod, 2 pod and a tail gunner = 3 :biggrin: simples.

Adam
08-02-11, 12:02
Where it gets difficult is when the throwing side like to stand off, and then wander in, with the throw happening immediately they arrive. In such circumstances, I'll ask how many so the oppo can set themselves. If I were to get the wring answer, I'd PK for unsporting behaviour.

I'm not going to worry about counting if they wander in and throw immediately if they haven't declared beforehand. This is because they are likely to con a FK from the opposition.

Phil E
08-02-11, 13:02
If I were to get the wring answer.

Are you auditioning for Allo Allo?

Mickman
08-02-11, 13:02
For teams who want to walk in while forming lineout, just manage lineout to ensure that it is a walk, and opposing team, except for total disregard for their requirement to match numbers will NOT be FK for attempting to do so, especially if they form lineout first and are waiting for throwing team. Consider if opposition has time to form lineout, are the throwing team then forming lineout with 'delay'?? FK against...

Materiality?!

When would you FK??
Scenario: Just to name a few...
Blue (throwing team) has 5 in line out (whether walk in, have a 6 man call, what-ever), Red has 6.
1. Blue throw in, (Red extra man stays or retreats) blue win clean ball to 9 out to 10- play on...
2. Red extra man retreating, Blue throw in, Red win cleanly, play on...
3. Red extra man retreating, Blue throw in not straight, blue win - red option...
4. Red extra man retreating, Blue throw in not straight, red win clean ball - play on...
5. Red extra man stays, Blue throw in, Blue win and start maul, drive on - advantage, numbers...

OB..
08-02-11, 13:02
Law 19.8 (e). You have to give the opposition time to adjust. Otherwise it is a FK.

ctrainor
08-02-11, 14:02
Law 19.8 (e). You have to give the opposition time to adjust. Otherwise it is a FK.

Or, iff they are too slow coming in I just call too slow no numbers let's play

stuart3826
08-02-11, 14:02
non-throwing side has more than the throwing side, FK them for stupidity.

Where it gets difficult is when the throwing side like to stand off, and then wander in, with the throw happening immediately they arrive. In such circumstances, I'll ask how many so the oppo can set themselves. If I were to get the wring answer, I'd PK for unsporting behaviour.
In the upper levels of the game, the ref tells teams not to do this. Worcester Warriors have form for it, and various refs have pulled them up. I'm pretty sure KML1 may be among that number!

Davet
08-02-11, 14:02
Trouble with simply allowing them to walk in and take the throw without allowing the opposition to balance numbers is that they can come in with a short line out, take a quick throw, move the ball off the top and away quickly - giving then a free overlap on the far side of the pitch.

SimonSmith
08-02-11, 15:02
If they walk in, I hold the throw and tell the non throwing hooker to count and tell me he's happy with the numbers/adjust.

If there is no "walk" but they simply form up, then I again ask the non throwing hooker if he's OK with the numbers.

I am adamantly not managing the numbers. I tell the hookers that there won't be any cheap free kicks, but if they can't do simple math, then it's on them.

Lee Lifeson-Peart
08-02-11, 18:02
If they walk in, I hold the throw and tell the non throwing hooker to count and tell me he's happy with the numbers/adjust.

If there is no "walk" but they simply form up, then I again ask the non throwing hooker if he's OK with the numbers.

I am adamantly not managing the numbers. I tell the hookers that there won't be any cheap free kicks, but if they can't do simple math, then it's on them.

Simple maths! :mad:

Anyway it's arithmetic. ;)

Davet
08-02-11, 18:02
Anyway it's arithmatic.


Anyway it's arithmetic.

fixed that for you.

Lee Lifeson-Peart
08-02-11, 18:02
Anyway it's arithmetic.

fixed that for you.

Shit!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Davet
08-02-11, 18:02
Always happy to help

:cool: :cool: :D

L'irlandais
08-02-11, 21:02
Are you auditioning for Allo Allo?Listen very carefully, I shall say zis only once "Good Moaning"
(So how'd I do?)

Phil E
09-02-11, 08:02
Listen very carefully, I shall say zis only once "Good Moaning"
(So how'd I do?)


Your accent is terrible. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

ROY T
10-02-11, 01:02
To me, the numbers law is all about management and only if non-throwing team are ignoring my preventative verbals then a FK would ensue. Last season it was one less item of the check list, great.

didds
10-02-11, 10:02
Actually we only need to be able to count to 3. :chin:

1 pod, 2 pod and a tail gunner = 3 :biggrin: simples.

tho of course a lifter in one pod may be a jumper in another which starts to complicate matters :-)

didds

Davet
10-02-11, 15:02
Coaching tactics that confuse the ref deserves a ping anyway...:)