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Number8
03-11-06, 01:11
If the ball is thrown in and doesn't travel 5m metres, it seems like there are three possibilities:
-- it is thrown in so it hits the ground < 5m from touch;
-- it is thrown in and a player from the throwing-in team grabs the ball before it reaches the 5m line;
-- it is thrown in and a player from the not-throwing-in team grabs the ball before it reaches the 5m line.

What are the sanctions? My question comes from reading these clauses:

5 HOW THE THROW-IN IS TAKEN
... The ball must be thrown straight, so that it travels at least 5 metres along the line-of-touch before it first touches the ground or touches or is touched by a player.

6 INCORRECT THROW-IN

(a) If the throw-in at a line-out is incorrect, the opposing team has the choice of throwing in at a line-out or a scrum on the 15-metre line. If they choose the throw-in to the line-out and it is again incorrect, a scrum is formed. The team that took the first throw-in throws in the ball.
This suggests that if the ball doesn't go 5m, the opponents have a choice of scrum or lineout. Is that right?

Robert Burns
03-11-06, 01:11
Hmmm, I would normally go with a free kick. I know it's in there somewhere!

OB..
03-11-06, 01:11
Correct!

Law 19.9 (m) Blocking the throw-in. A line-out player must not stand less than 5 metres from the touch-line. A line-out player must not prevent the ball being thrown in 5 metres.
Penalty: Free Kick on the 15-metre line

Fabio
03-11-06, 01:11
Also

19.2 (g) At a quick throw in, a player must not prevent the ball being thrown in 5 metres.
Penalty: Free Kick on 15-metre line

SONA
03-11-06, 03:11
My understanding is that "not 5" and "not straight" is choice of line or scrum, provided the defenders are not the ones that interfered with the throw in, in the later case it would be a FK.

Davet
03-11-06, 10:11
SONA - Agreed.

If the thrower slips, messes up or whatever and fails to get it in 5m then option L/O or Scrum to opposition. Simiarly if catcher mis-times and takes it inside 5.

If the opposition BLOCK it then then FK.

There is a slight grey area - if the catcher on the throwing team deliberately takes it inside 5, then it may be a FK to opposition for preventing it going 5.

I would usually give option on first offence, and on second offence - but with a warning. 3rd offence would be a FK.

SimonSmith
06-11-06, 14:11
This reared its ugly head this weekend at the VRU Commonewealth Championships.

Sthomas - Dave Metcalfe was there and sends his best.
Judah - Kurt Franciskovich (who remembered you from the chamipionships) also sends best.

I had a couple of throws which were taken by the throwing in side on about 4m. First match I gave a scrum. WHich would appear to be at odds with everyone else there.

I then went and did a re read of the law.

First, 19.2.g isn't in play - that specifically references a quick throw - I'm dealing with full constituted lines.

I then looked at 19.9.m - blocking the throw. The graphic in the law book shows a deliberate block - it doesn't show what we are describing. I don't consider what we are discussing to be "blocking" per se, more a screw up in the contest for the ball.

I'm not sure that the law is adequately written to cover the scenario here. Any advice?

OB..
06-11-06, 16:11
19.9 (m) "A line-out player must not prevent the ball being thrown in 5 metres."
It uses the word "prevent", even though the heading is "blocking".

19.6 (a) "If the throw-in at a line-out is incorrect, the opposing team has the choice of throwing in at a line-out or a scrum on the 15-metre line."
My view is that the former applies to a deliberate act, the latter to an accidental one.

It is your decision which to apply in a particular case.

Bungle
07-11-06, 14:11
Good place to make my first post as I had this crop up on Sat. I guess I'll be joining a few other London refs in making my debut on here in the next few days. The site looks really useful and there are some very thought provoking ideas.

Anyway, I had this on a front ball and jumper leant forward - he caught the ball clearly about 0.5m inside the 5m. Immediate instinct - free kick. No complaints from either side and some muttering of 'well spotted' form the touchline (rare praise from that quarter!).
I like OB's reasoning. This is a deliberate act which causes the infringement (ignoring any debate about skill levels) and should be punished more severely as it lessens the chance of a fair contest at the line-out. I'd say 19.9 (m) is pretty clear on this. Of course, if non-offending side are a strong scrummaging team they can always opt for the scrum on the 15 inplace of the FK.

I've noticed an increasing trend on a front ball for attacking team jumper to lean so far forward - sometimes precariously so. I had to check if there was anything in the law book specifically about this but it seems not - just the usual about lifting, levering lowering and the line of touch. Am I right?

OB..
07-11-06, 15:11
If he is leaning forward, do you think it is safe?

Deeps
07-11-06, 15:11
[QUOTE=OB..]19.9 (m) and 19.6 (a) My view is that the former applies to a deliberate act, the latter to an accidental one./QUOTE]

OB has a knack of getting to the resolution quickly. The option of line out or scrum to the non offending side was used commonly in my youth as a player but then seemed to drop out of vogue. Either the offence was so blatant as to warrant a FK or the inability of the the side to throw correctly was conveniently ignored; I think it has its place nowadays.