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didds
04-11-06, 16:11
Wales v Australia

7th minute: Walsh colnrtacted by TJ/asistant who points out boots on body by (I thiknk) Giteau. Walsh penalises this and has a quite specific chat with aus regarding "the ruling handed down" [sic] and NO boots on bodies, boots on the rugby ball only etc.

9th minute : Wales attack, Aus kill ruck, Jones quite clearly stamps on an Aus player's leg/thigh feet frolm Walsh. Walsh ignores the totally open boot on body, awards PK to Wales for Aus killing ball and wales kick goal.

11th minute: Aus now attacking, ruck in wales' 22. Ball is woon and is enmerging and Aus rucker quite clearly at the rear of the ruck puts a boot on a Wales player and encourages him clear of te ruck (what was once descried as a "rucking motion". This actiopn was totally clear ad unequivacle ay the very rear of the ruck - the boot on the body was clearly delierate. Walsh ignored it entirely.

You blokes don;t have a prayer in getting this IRB ruling iunderstood and accepted when a test referee is obviously quite content to ignoire it - when displaying that he clearly understands what the IRB require, and equally displaing total inconcistency himself on the matter within a minute or two.
This cannot be about elite v community interpretations as Walsh demonstrated he knows what the ruling is asnd was content to act on that knowledge.


*sigh*

didds

Deeps
04-11-06, 19:11
Towards the end of the game when Aus were pressing on the Wales 22, Rogers had the ball but an Aus player, clearly ahead of Rogers, blocked a potential Welsh tackler.

Walsh awarded a scrum to Wales indicating accidental offside! Very strange.

Glyndwr
04-11-06, 19:11
Not strange, mon ami.

Too many refs at that level bottle difficult decisions, little realising the problems it causes to lesser mortals.

Padster
04-11-06, 22:11
It makes it hard for us when we do have to send someone off for use of the boot. Many players still think that rucking out is fine but they learn the hard way when they finish a match earlier than envisaged.

Jaycee
06-11-06, 10:11
I thought the ruling was that if the player stepped on another it was card unless the player was near the ball, ie you are allowed to ruck. Only one Walsh decision was wrong in my view and that was the first one where he had a chat with the offender. By the tone of the player it sounded to me like he expected to walk and was amazed to get off.

Simon Thomas
06-11-06, 10:11
It really doesn't help when we see a different interpretation by elite referees.
I would have thought deliberate boots to body was a pretty cut and dried issue, but I am not privy to Elite protocols & discussions and the pre-match briefings.

As we all know too well, the IRB and RFU Elite Panels do not always act as we would at the Community levels, and thus give players / coaches / spectators the importal words "but xxx did on the TV and he didn't get carded". I use the reply "well when you are on the TV perhaps you will get away with it, but not on this pitch and not with 29 other guys who want to go to work on Monday morning. "

beckett50
06-11-06, 10:11
You blokes don;t have a prayer in getting this IRB ruling iunderstood and accepted when a test referee is obviously quite content to ignoire it

Nothing new there then:D

bobby
06-11-06, 15:11
the running lines assessors harp onto me about, aren't those taken by IRB refs. If you watched Judget yesterday in the England v NZL match he was in the defensive line more times than I'd care to think. :confused:

Padster
06-11-06, 15:11
I was wondering about the lines taken by Jutge as well. I went with a referee colleague who also queried what was going on.

Waynepipmad
06-11-06, 15:11
"[/QUOTE] As we all know too well, the IRB and RFU Elite Panels do not always act as we would at the Community levels, and thus give players / coaches / spectators the importal words "but xxx did on the TV and he didn't get carded". I use the reply "well when you are on the TV perhaps you will get away with it, but not on this pitch and not with 29 other guys who want to go to work on Monday morning. "[/QUOTE]

This is the very thing I was thinking, I Red Carded someone on Friday evening for stamping on a player who was no-where near the ball, now I have to Ref that club again in a few weeks time and Steve Walsh leniency has done me, or any of us `grass roots' Referee's any favours

didds
06-11-06, 16:11
just toi reiterate... the elite v community argument cannot hold sway here as WSalsh DID penalise Giteau for it ie it is part of the elite game's LotG. Walsj then later ignored it - hence the *sigh*.

cheers

didds

bobby
06-11-06, 18:11
not such a united message for all referees to follow. The amount of confusion this leads to for your everyday referee is immense. how we manage this on the field, as mentioned throughout this thread, is going to be difficult when players start quoting refs calls and performances from TV matches:eek:

Davet
06-11-06, 18:11
when players start quoting refs calls and performances from TV matches

Though if they do, then, in fairness, they cannot complain if the ref compares their performance to the likes of McCaw, Peel, Hodgeson, Latham etc. as appropriate.

ex-lucy
07-11-06, 11:11
apparently Walsh told some of the players that it was the last phase .. but not all of them ... hence the kick to touch by Wales rather than run it to look for a winning score.

crazy keewee referee

Davet
07-11-06, 11:11
They must have known it was pretty much time - why did they not ask?

Brian Ravenhill
07-11-06, 11:11
Was there not a staduim clock with the stopped clock visible.

ex-lucy
07-11-06, 12:11
davet, they did ask. well some of them .. and he said 'last play' but he didnt tell the FH or capt who chose the call to kick.

stadium clock: this was the first time it was used as a stopping clock and the players believed that there was some injury time left ...

you cant excuse some of the players' stupidity but .. if Walsh is going to make it know to some players then he should make it known generally .. as we discussed in a previous thread.

Davet
07-11-06, 12:11
Did the players who asked and received the answer not pass that knowledge that their team-mates?

Its not the refs job to ensure all players know what time is left, if they ask tell 'em. If they have asked and been told; and kept it secret then that's their stupidity.

If I am asked then I will answer loudly enough to be heard by all within reasonable earshot, but it's not my role to ensure that all hear it.

OB..
07-11-06, 13:11
ex-lucy - are you on a mission of some sort? :D
Again, I agree with Davet.

ex-lucy
07-11-06, 13:11
PR's take on it ...

http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/News/story_54953.shtml

ex-lucy
07-11-06, 13:11
OB... i am not disagreeing with davet ...
"That the whistle went when it did in Cardiff was right and proper. It could just be managed better." i think this sums up what i am trying to say.

"Isn't this an argument for using the siren/hooter to indicate time up." for international and otehr first class matches ...

OB..
07-11-06, 13:11
I have no problem with using a hooter.

What I do disagree with is the idea that a referee somehow has an obligation to broadcast his answer to a question. And if nobody asks? AFAIK he has no obligation to keep them informed on time.

ex-lucy
07-11-06, 13:11
i am all for the use of hooters ... indeed i think they should be used at our level so we can get a good feel for them ...

Deeps
07-11-06, 14:11
I am all for feeling hooters too...

Robert Burns
07-11-06, 16:11
I am all for feeling hooters too...
Here Here!

lol

Simon Thomas
07-11-06, 23:11
Most clubs struggle to get 15 players out, and a hot shower and post match drink for the ref.
A hooter and accurate time-keeper is a dream best kept for the elite end of the game !

Unless you are talking 'burgers' of course then I am all for it !

Mike Whittaker
09-11-06, 10:11
Anyone else think the Welsh were clearly boring in on the scrum with 2 minutes to go ? I guess the Wallaby scrum is crap and has a bad reputation, hence refs tend to presume Wallaby incompetence rather than cheating by their opponents.

Regret I find your pejorative generalisation not warranting further consideration..:rolleyes:

Simon Thomas
09-11-06, 11:11
I didn't see as the Welsh props 'boring in' at all. When Jones (2) replaced Jones (1), it appeared to me that the Aussie front row just couldn't take the pressure scrum after scrum when the full shove came on, and folded in creating the 90 degree engagement mess.
If you can't create an equal and opposite force the pressure has to go somewhere - up, sideways or heaven forbid down.

Robert Burns
09-11-06, 16:11
Don't worry about it, he's banned.

Mike Whittaker
09-11-06, 16:11
I didn't see as the Welsh props 'boring in' at all.

Well you wouldn't would you.... :D

Wert Twacky
10-11-06, 12:11
Windbreaker - you an Aussie, or, as your name suggests, you just full of hot air?

Glyndwr
10-11-06, 18:11
What I do disagree with is the idea that a referee somehow has an obligation to broadcast his answer to a question. And if nobody asks? AFAIK he has no obligation to keep them informed on time.

Totally agree. I am of the old school - if asked a question politely and at an appropriate time - answer it.

Otherwise, nothing except the factual calls.

No coaching, no running commentary.

(Junior age groups excepted)