View Full Version : Wales v P I

14-11-06, 20:11
Saw this on the Ospreys website and wondered what the feeling was. Thought the ref (Wayne ?) had a good game apart from try he disallowed for alleged knock on.

After Mark Jones' try, the referee asked the TMO to check that he hadn't stepped into touch. Now, the incident in question happened around the 22. Let's have a look at the law book...

IRB wrote:
(a) The referee may consult with touch judges in regard to matters
relating to their duties, the Law relating to foul play, or
(b) A match organiser may appoint an official who uses technological
devices. If the referee is unsure when making a decision in in-goal
involving a try being scored or a touch down, that official may be
(c) The official may be consulted if the referee is unsure when making
a decision in in-goal with regard to the scoring of a try or a touch
down when foul play in in-goal may have been involved.
(d) The official may be consulted in relation to the success or
otherwise of kicks at goal.
(e) The official may be consulted if the referee or touch judge is
unsure if a player was or was not in touch when attempting to
ground the ball to score a try.
(f) The official may be consulted if the referee or touch judges are
unsure when making a decision relating to touch-in-goal and the
ball being made dead if a score may have occurred.
(g) A match organiser may appoint a timekeeper who will signify the
end of each half.
(h) The referee must not consult with any other persons.

OK, the incident was not in in-goal, it was not a kick at goal, MJ was not at the time of the incident trying to ground the ball and the incident was nothing to do with touch-in-goal.

So, can someone please tell me why such a blatent breach of the laws took place this afternoon?

14-11-06, 21:11
I thought Wayne Barnes had a cracker of a game too; what a breath of fresh air he is. He gets an A for his contribution to the enjoyment of the game in my book. :D

Simon Griffiths
14-11-06, 21:11
You can take the lad out of Gloucestershire, but you can't take Gloucestershire out of the lad! :D

14-11-06, 22:11
Really? I thought he was pretty uneasy. Too much talking, which was too frantic, and seemed pretty jumpy. I expected much more from him given that he is the "blessed one" from the RFU to follow Chris White.

15-11-06, 08:11
Any thoughts on going to the TMO

Account Deleted
15-11-06, 10:11
I read it as he was wrong, in Law, to go to the TMO. However, every time a ref takes a call from a TJ about a Forward pass or Knock-on it is wrong also.
It seems daft that the Laws allow only certain interventions. Yet as refs should be ignore specific laws? We should ask why have the law makers said that TJs / TMOs can do this but not that rather than make a call to ingnore the Laws.
After all we cant just decide to ignore the scrum collapsing Laws can we?

S oin conclusing I think it needs changing but the ref acted outside his power in bringing the TMO in on the call.

There you are one answer to your question.

Simon Thomas
15-11-06, 11:11
perhaps Barnsey thought the Lensbury 2006 Elite recommednations had already been implemented

"6. Television match official

In conversation with the TMO, the referee is advised to use one of two questions:

a. Has a try been scored?
b. Is there any reason for me not to award this try?

The first would be used when the referee is completely unsure, the second when he suspects that a try was indeed scored.

There is a proposal that TMO’s area of adjudication be extended to include the whole phase of play that ended with the scoring of points.

This phase would be after the previous stoppage and not include any stoppage (scrum, line-out, free kick or penalty). It could include passes, tackles, rucks, mauls and kicks.

In an extreme case, it could stretch the length of the field. The Pacific Islands are on the Welsh line but Kevin Morgan intercepts and runs. The Islands get back to tackle but after several phases Shane Williams of Wales scores. If the referee may suspect a knock-on in the intercept, he will be allowed to refer the matter to the TMO."

15-11-06, 12:11
I got the feeling that Wayne was very keen to avoid any of the problems that Joel Jute had the previous week by simply asking "tell me if that was a try - yes or no".

I'm certain he didn't ask about touch lines because when he called for the TMO I assumed he was concerned about the dead-ball line, and I was surprised to see the TMO was looking at the touch line.

It seemed to me then that the TMO may have got it wrong not the ref (albeit perhaps because he wasn't told exactly what to look for).

PS I thought overall Wayne had a fabulous game - just the right amount of chat, lots of colours and numbers - an "easy" game that was made easy by good communication and management.

15-11-06, 13:11
However, every time a ref takes a call from a TJ about a Forward pass or Knock-on it is wrong also.Referees can get overly pedantic. The place for pedantry is a forum like this (that's my excuse, anyway ;) ).

Most referee, in their pre-match briefing, will ask TJs to assist with knock-ons and forward passes, but discreetly. It is better for the game. The duties of the TJs and the TMO are still evolving. That seems to me to be a Good Thing.

Yet as refs should be ignore specific laws?May I ask when you last pinged a thrower at the lineout for having his foot across the line? If you do so, you are in a very small minority.

15-11-06, 20:11
Thanks for replies. I bet the TJ was glad that the TMO ruled it was ok as he was standing wthin arms length of the player and ruled it ok

15-11-06, 20:11
At the first line outs in most matches I stand by the hooker and have a very obvious look at where his feet are. Seems to work a treat.