PDA

View Full Version : Boot advice needed for achilles injury - new ref



dreadpiratedaz
06-01-12, 00:01
Hi All,
my first post. After returning to refereeing after a 16 year lay off I've had a series of niggling injuries that started in the glute on my right (piriformis) worked its way down to a 'tweeked' hamstring, then a tight calf(lateral, perineals) and then at the beginning of December it erupted into full blow achilles tendonitis, all on the right side (still not running but hope to do so by the weekend). It had been threatening to do so for a few weeks prior but I stuck my head in the sand. I should know better as I've had achilles and calf problems for 12 years now. I have orthotics, was wearing them at the time but the chiropodist said they were designed for hard ground and cricket (he's made me some temporary devices to compensate for the soft turf until the tendonitis has calmed down). I'm very much used to sprinting, twisting and turning, and I'm quite fit. I have even been doing weighted one legged calf/heel dips off a step since Feb 2011 (straight and bent legged). So I thought I was fully prepared but the chiropodist said the soft turf and a poor rugby boot (asics tigerrug ex jp: lined with cardboard!) were to blame.

To rule out any biomechanical problems I need to change my boots for some that have much more torsional rigidity so when you grab them at the heel and toe and twist in opposite directions they resist the deformation. It would be good to hear from any chiropodists, physios or anyone else who has had to change their boots for similar reasons. What boots would you suggest and recommend? I've heard of the new asics range (my cricket shoes are asics and are superb!) and that they have a heel gradient. Does anyone use them and have they helped solve any calf/achilles problems. WOuld anyone else recommend any other rugby boot manufacturer?

Looking forward to hearing your comments. Cheers in advance.

Sarge

ddjamo
06-01-12, 00:01
here you go and welcome....

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread.php?14086-Referees-Boot-Design

dreadpiratedaz
06-01-12, 00:01
Thanks for that but the page said, "you do not have permission to access this page".

ddjamo
06-01-12, 00:01
not sure how the mods work verifying that you are a referee. but as soon as they send out an inspector, have your series of interviews, blood work, cornea laser, proper ID and you surrender your passport, with the $300 non refundable application fee - I'm sure they will flip the switch.

Robert Burns
06-01-12, 01:01
not sure how the mods work verifying that you are a referee. but as soon as they send out an inspector, have your series of interviews, blood work, cornea laser, proper ID and you surrender your passport, with the $300 non refundable application fee - I'm sure they will flip the switch.


You do now. :biggrin:

Drift
06-01-12, 02:01
Either get a pair of Asics Tigoers or get any old boot with a pair of orthotics to wear as well.

Dickie E
06-01-12, 02:01
lined with cardboard!

To rule out any biomechanical problems I need to change my boots for some that have much more torsional rigidity so when you grab them at the heel and toe and twist in opposite directions they resist the deformation.

Use thicker cardboard.

dreadpiratedaz
06-01-12, 09:01
Ah, switch has been flipped. I can see the thread now. Looks like asics lethal seem to be very popular. Do they come in different types of studs/cleats?


Use thicker cardboard
Well, just tried stuffing a leftover cardboard box from christmas down them. Parcel tape got in the way! I mean, who thought of using cardboard in an asics boot! I wondered why they stunk so much after their first use! Or was that my refereeing? (that was a rhetorical Q)

Ovey
06-01-12, 11:01
I've just ordered some Asics Tigreor 3's (moulded not the full stud - I might get the full stud too if I get on with them). I've had calf pulls for a while now (tight calf muscles apparently) and the Podiatrist recommended Asics as a boot that will aid this (as well as exercises and orthotics) since they have the heel gradient built in. I haven't got them yet but I'll let you know what happens once they've arrived.

dreadpiratedaz
06-01-12, 11:01
Yes, the heel gradient seems like a good idea, should take the strain off the achilles and calf.

Out of interest, do people prefer moulded to stud - even on soft turf. Anyone notice a difference where achilles and calves are concerned?

Ovey
06-01-12, 11:01
As a player I probably wore my full studs for most matches in the UK, and my moulded for the occasional one on firmish ground (and my moulded all the time when deployed since most pitches where the navy ships tend to play were sand/hard ground).

Since taking up the whistle (just over a year ago) I think I've worn my full studs two or three times and my moulded pretty much most of the time. I haven't noticed anything different with the achilles, just that it was easier on the soles of the feet, although that may change with the new Asics when they arrive.

Phil E
06-01-12, 12:01
I suffered from Achilis problems quite badly for a while.
Saw my physio at work (Premiership football club) and was advised a few things.

Asics Gel boots (Lethal 11 is a good one, comes in studs or moulds).
Vaseline on the back of the heel and inside the heel of the boot to reduce friction on the achilis.
Regular physio, consisting of standing with your toes on a step, then lower the heel below the height of the step for a count of 5. Repeat a few times, regularly through the day. Makes getting upstairs a slow process, but works.

New boots every seasons if possible. Check the inside heel and side of the boot for wear. This will show if your boots don't fit properly and are causing friction on the heel area.

Worked for me.

Ovey
06-01-12, 12:01
Yeah, I had the lower/raise on the edge of a step exercises to do too, they hurt at first but seem to be getting easier. Hopefully this will extend the calves a bit to avoid regular injury like I've been having. I'll try the boots too when they arrive, but can't say I've heard of the vaseline option (apart from in your other thread). maybe I'll give that a try after the new boots arrive too.

L'irlandais
06-01-12, 12:01
Thanks for that but the page said, "you do not have permission to access this page".I still get that "you do not have permission to access this page".
It seems that Robert Burns has eyes and ears everywhere :wtf:;
honest I promise to put my "Licenciés Capacitaires en Arbitrage (*LCA)" training to good use before the end of the season. It's just that right now I'm not fit enough to go 80 minutes with the 2nd sides.

*Means something like "Club member capable of reffing" a senior game. Mostly an insurance requirement for the club, rather than a real desire on my part to take the abuse, that's par for the course, at grassroots level out here.

dreadpiratedaz
06-01-12, 14:01
Vaz, that's a good idea, never heard that one before.
Yep still doing the calf dips but I'll hold them for longer to get the deep stretch.

I have a bit of a theory about studs on soft turf. If you have an 8 stud configuration then there's less body weight per stud which means the stud takes longer to go into the turf. If you run on your forefoot, like most of us do, this may well stretch the achilles and calf too much and irritate it. So, while you're trying to push-off, the studs could still be sinking in the turf, thus the achilles and calf are having to work much harder to compensate during each stride.

I think I've just convinced myself to get blades or a six stud config.

Robert Burns
06-01-12, 16:01
Ah, switch has been flipped. I can see the thread now. Looks like asics lethal seem to be very popular. Do they come in different types of studs/cleats?


Well, just tried stuffing a leftover cardboard box from christmas down them. Parcel tape got in the way! I mean, who thought of using cardboard in an asics boot! I wondered why they stunk so much after their first use! Or was that my refereeing? (that was a rhetorical Q)

You'll get on well here! :biggrin:


I still get that "you do not have permission to access this page".
It seems that Robert Burns has eyes and ears everywhere :wtf:;
honest I promise to put my "Licenciés Capacitaires en Arbitrage (*LCA)" training to good use before the end of the season. It's just that right now I'm not fit enough to go 80 minutes with the 2nd sides.

*Means something like "Club member capable of reffing" a senior game. Mostly an insurance requirement for the club, rather than a real desire on my part to take the abuse, that's par for the course, at grassroots level out here.

Have you paid the $300 non refundable membership fee? :chin:

Si vous promettez de se comporter, je vais vous laisser entrer

Phil E
06-01-12, 16:01
I think I've just convinced myself to get blades or a six stud config.

Can't remember the name, but Asics do a hybrid boot that has both.

upnunder
06-01-12, 19:01
I prefer to wear blades as much as possible, only deferring to my studded boots if the ground is really muddy.

dreadpiratedaz
07-01-12, 00:01
Can't remember the name, but Asics do a hybrid boot that has both.
They're called Asics Hybrid. :redface:

dreadpiratedaz
07-01-12, 00:01
Ok, decision made. well, almost. Its a toss-up between lethal tigreor (how do you pronounce that? Tiger oar?) moulded or the lethal ultimate IGS 5, also moulded.

Anyone want to buy an old pair of asics tigerrug ex jp? 1 former crippled owner. Made of plastic and cardboard. Anyone? I'll throw in a stud spanner free of charge.

L'irlandais
07-01-12, 10:01
...Si vous promettez de se comporter, je vais vous laisser entrerNo worries, Chopper has agreed to teach me the ropes as far as Forum Etiquette goes, so that should be fine. :)

In terms of the LCA being purely an insurance requirement for the club, I stand corrected.
In this departement (county) we have 42 qualified referees to deal with some 55 matches each week-end.
The LCA (trained assistant referee) was created to avoid 2nd teams travelling long distances only to find their match cancelled due to lack of a suitable referee.
The insurance requirement springs from earlier use of untrained/unsuitable referees as a stop gap.

Blackberry
08-01-12, 19:01
I bought a pair of Asic Trail (Trail means they work on wet/muddy surfaces too) Sensor 5 as my Achilles had been hurting after each match. I've used them twice and already they are proving 100% effective at stopping the problem recurring. I have yet to try them in deep mud, so will keep you posted.

dreadpiratedaz
24-02-12, 00:02
Quick update: did my research and looked for all the different technologies that my superb cricket shoes have . . . but in a rugby boot. It has to be asics and found Asics Gel Lethal Ultimate IGS 5. Took a number of weeks to find a pair in my size as many websites say they have them but don't! I think Asics have stopped making them or they may have updayed them.

Took them out today for a short workout with my orthotics in and they were superb. Very rigid and comfortable. Loads of cushioning and support. Light with plenty of grip, even though the moulded studs look a bit lightweight, they were fine. Not a piece of cardboard in sight! The upper is very confortable and cushioned. Slightly wider fit than usual so my orthotics slid in fine. I might give myself more of a heel gradient. Dont feel like I'm sinking in the pitch but running on top of it. Helped me made a decision not to go back to studs but to stay with mouldeds, I don't need the traction I used - now that I'm 45 this week! Achilles feels fine but will have to build up the mileage and intensity before going back to reffing. Should be fit for the last game of the season! Not bad for less than the price of 2 trips to the physio - now the wife wants a new dress from Monsoon!

Thanks for all your comments

Phil E
24-02-12, 12:02
It has to be asics and found Asics Gel Lethal Ultimate IGS 5.

I am after a pair of those for next season. Where did you get them from?
Having trouble finding a pair in Asics size 14!

Did consider the Asics Hybrid, but could only find them in white!! :wow:

Phil

Lee Lifeson-Peart
24-02-12, 13:02
Phil

Try this lot they may have something in your size.

Rugby Boats (http://rugbyboats.co.uk/narrowboats-for-sale.php)

dreadpiratedaz
15-09-14, 22:09
Hi Y'all,

here I am updating you two years later.

I still have the same boots as 2 years ago: Asics Gel Lethal Ultimate IGS5. I would swear by them. The achilles issue did improve but was intermittent. After a scan and xray it became clear that the problem has never been the achilles. The achilles was perfect; it was the three little muscles behind it that were getting irritated: flexor hallucis, digitorum and 1 other I can't remember. I'm a severe rear foot supinator (run on the outside of the heel). All three were getting mashed every time I was sprinting. So I am lined up for an ankle operation to chip a bit off the bone(talar joint) that seems to be sticking right into all of those ligaments/tendons.

I had 1 cortisone injection into the ankle joint to see if this was the cause of the problem and it solved it instantaneously for a period of 3 months. After that the pain came back, but not as bad as before.

A really good physio encouraged me to do plyomentrics for sprinting and gave me various exercises to strengthen glute medius, which is responsible for pelvic stability and controlling my severe forefoot pronation. It has still taken quite a while to stengthen these at my age but I feel far more stable when I run.

What are the lessons I have learned?
Get orthotics
Get a biomechanical assessment
stretch your calves regularly
Take at least 3 months to strengthen your calves eccentrically(calf dips on a stair)
Do not neglect your core/glutes
Do plyometrics
Wear asics
Do not assume a diagnosed achilles problem is achilles until a scan - even if you have pain in the achilles (chronic pain can mislead)
Work on your general fitness (beach body workouts DVDs eg insanity/asylum)

Thanks to everyone who has contributed here and hopefully my experience might point you in the right direction.
PS I am still reffing level 8

woody
16-09-14, 01:09
Interesting and timely update.

After struggling with calf pain for a year, I finally bucked up and decided to get in shape with plyometrics. There has been progress but it has been slow. The scan is coming up soon.

My preferred calf stretch is the downward dog morning and night.

Dickie E
16-09-14, 02:09
What are the lessons I have learned?
Get orthotics


this. Saved me.

menace
16-09-14, 03:09
Hi Y'all,

here I am updating you two years later.

I still have the same boots as 2 years ago: Asics Gel Lethal Ultimate IGS5. I would swear by them. The achilles issue did improve but was intermittent. After a scan and xray it became clear that the problem has never been the achilles. The achilles was perfect; it was the three little muscles behind it that were getting irritated: flexor hallucis, digitorum and 1 other I can't remember. I'm a severe rear foot supinator (run on the outside of the heel). All three were getting mashed every time I was sprinting. So I am lined up for an ankle operation to chip a bit off the bone(talar joint) that seems to be sticking right into all of those ligaments/tendons.

I had 1 cortisone injection into the ankle joint to see if this was the cause of the problem and it solved it instantaneously for a period of 3 months. After that the pain came back, but not as bad as before.

A really good physio encouraged me to do plyomentrics for sprinting and gave me various exercises to strengthen glute medius, which is responsible for pelvic stability and controlling my severe forefoot pronation. It has still taken quite a while to stengthen these at my age but I feel far more stable when I run.

What are the lessons I have learned?
Get orthotics
Get a biomechanical assessment
stretch your calves regularly
Take at least 3 months to strengthen your calves eccentrically(calf dips on a stair)
Do not neglect your core/glutes
Do plyometrics
Wear asics
Do not assume a diagnosed achilles problem is achilles until a scan - even if you have pain in the achilles (chronic pain can mislead)
Work on your general fitness (beach body workouts DVDs eg insanity/asylum)

Thanks to everyone who has contributed here and hopefully my experience might point you in the right direction.
PS I am still reffing level 8

I've written other threads on the same affliction that I had, at about the same time as you started yours so it's a wonder I didn't see your thread? In summary mine spanned about 3 years, started with sore glutes, moving down to tight hammy, calf strains and plantar fasciitis etc etc. I also moved to asics boots and had some relief (wasn't the silver bullet but stopped straining the calves!). Physio thought it was all neural (back) but could not locate cause nor the reason so tried many programs of strength and conditioning to the body but to no avail (not orthodics as tests showed that was not a likely problem). But eventually I was diagnosed with severe inflammation at the hamstring insertion in my ass as the most likely problem (but couldn't find the cause) . Cortisone injection in the ass provided instant relief.....only 3 weeks later I developed severe Achilles tendonitis (both sides). More conditioning and radical diet change (to manage inflammation) ensued...and again months later it was to no avail. Cortisone shots around the Achilles provided relief but only lasted 2 months and it returned. 6 months of physio did not help so decided on a visit to the Wallabies/Brumbies sports physician, who told me I had similar condition to Rocky Elsom and there was nothing I could do and I had to just wait it out with rest rest rest (to avoid any surgery) and hope the body healed itself. I resigned myself to no more running ever, and therefore no more refereeing (I could barely walk without severe pain).

4 months later on the sideline of a local rugby match (I could only do No4/5 duties!) I was chatting with another sports physician (team medic) and I told him my issues. He squeezed me in for a consult within a week as he was confident that he knew what the problem was. Within 1 visit plus some body scans (to rule things out) and then second visit he diagnosed that my Sacro iliac tendons (in the back/hips) were locking up and causing the problems. Within 6 weeks of a stretch and strength program (and one cortisone injection) I was pain free and Achilles inflammation almost gone. I returned to a graduated running program and within 3 months I was sprinting again. That was 12 months ago and I'm as good as ever and at full fitness (I continue to do my Sacro exercises and stretches) . That Dr was my hero!

I also swear by the asics and will use nothing else now.

What I learnt though was
1) keep persevering and seek professional help
2) the body is an incredibly complex machine and just one small thing can cause a lot of issues so it's not easy to identify problems. One solution does not fit all.
3) get a 2nd opinion sooner rather than later if the first one is not working. fresh approaches can be all that it takes.
4) good quality boots do matter!

(Oh and not all ankle/leg problems are from pronation or supination, it could be your back/hips causing all the problems to the lower legs).

Daftmedic
16-09-14, 08:09
Asics lethal hybrid 4. Bloody brilliant

TheBFG
16-09-14, 12:09
Asics lethal hybrid 4. Bloody brilliant

They're bloody white!

dreadpiratedaz
19-09-14, 07:09
Clean 'em!

Drift
19-09-14, 08:09
They're bloody white!

Seriously, who cares? IRB referees all around the world have red, blue, white or green boots. It's just the way the world is going. If an assessor is picking me up on the colour of my boots then I have had a great day at the office.

Daftmedic
19-09-14, 09:09
They're bloody white!
Correct observation. It's to dazzle the wingers when I beat them to the try line

Browner
19-09-14, 12:09
Seriously, who cares? IRB referees all around the world have red, blue, white or green boots. It's just the way the world is going. If an assessor is picking me up on the colour of my boots then I have had a great day at the office.

Then the Assessor who assesses that Assessor should mark him down for being unnecessarily Tory !
Unless I'm mistaken(?) there are no IRB 'referee attire' insistences??

A player could wear 'multicoloured' Mitts Tights Headscarf or headguard, which I think makes boot colour irrelevant.

PS.. I recently watched a Senior Society Officer refereeing a L7 match wearing White trainers.

Daftmedic
19-09-14, 12:09
Then the Assessor who assesses that Assessor should mark him down for being unnecessarily Tory !
Unless I'm mistaken(?) there are no IRB 'referee attire' insistences??

A player could wear 'multicoloured' Mitts Tights Headscarf or headguard, which I think makes boot colour irrelevant.

PS.. I recently watched a Senior Society Officer refereeing a L7 match wearing White trainers.
If the Assessor is tory I'm stuffed... I'm independent

ddjamo
19-09-14, 14:09
I have switched to innov-8 only. they make a number of different styles of shoes (I carry 3) with varying lengths of molded cleats, are fully flexible like a running shoe and are light. losing 50lbs and switching to these boots = no niggles or recurring injuries.

this is my main go to shoe: http://www.inov-8.com/new/Global/Product-View-Roclite-243-Red-Black-Mens-AW14.html?L=27&A=Trail&G=Male

Browner
19-09-14, 14:09
....losing 50lbs

:clap:

Daftmedic
19-09-14, 15:09
I have switched to innov-8 only. they make a number of different styles of shoes (I carry 3) with varying lengths of molded cleats, are fully flexible like a running shoe and are light. losing 50lbs and switching to these boots = no niggles or recurring injuries.

this is my main go to shoe: http://www.inov-8.com/new/Global/Product-View-Roclite-243-Red-Black-Mens-AW14.html?L=27&A=Trail&G=Male

I lost £50. My wife killed me
But that's a bloody great acheivment

Pinky
19-09-14, 16:09
Jamo, well done losing the weight - I know exactly how you feel :smile: