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Phil E
07-03-13, 10:03
Had over 15 requests for this.
I will email it to all who asked as soon as I can.

Phil

dave_clark
07-03-13, 13:03
is it largely stolen from the thread i started a couple of years ago?

:biggrin:

winchesterref
07-03-13, 14:03
Phil I'm unable to PM you for some reason but would like to see it as well!

Phil E
07-03-13, 15:03
is it largely stolen from the thread i started a couple of years ago?

:biggrin:

Probably :wink:

Sent to all those who asked for it.
Now trying to see if I can upload it?

- - - Updated - - -

This should be it as a zipped PowerPoint file.

2538

Kempy
07-03-13, 15:03
Great powerpoint!

Would you mind if I share with some of my colleagues?

Could I add, "oi ref, double movement!"

Skids
07-03-13, 15:03
Got it Phil, thanks.

Davet
07-03-13, 16:03
Clear and to the point - I like it.

Phil E
07-03-13, 16:03
Guys and Gals

Folks

Please feel free to re-use as you wish.
If you could give credit to me and Warwickshire, that would be nice.
.......and post any new and common myths on this thread please.

Thanks
Phil

Phil Everitt
WSOR - Training & Development Officer
Central Federation Management Board
RNRURS
RFU Referee Trainer

Browner
07-03-13, 16:03
Tis proper alrite

crossref
07-03-13, 17:03
I would add

- no hand offs to the face
- when the scrum half his hands on the ball it's out
- you can't be offside after a charge down

Phil E
07-03-13, 17:03
Should have mentioned.

On each slide, put up the title.
Then using the slide notes, prompt for answers.
Get the audience to answer it themselves if they can, with you leading them with open questions.
Then put up the law reference and check understanding.
Finally discuss management techniques to sell your (correct) decision with good clear communication (signal and voice).

Phil E
07-03-13, 17:03
I would add


- no hand offs to the face
- when the scrum half his hands on the ball it's out
- you can't be offside after a charge down




- Usually only challenged at youth rugby, but yes.
- Bit dangerous this one as that is the way many referees play it, which is why I left that question alone.[smoking gun]
- Good one. I need to add that (only kicking team are put onside).


Thanks

Blackberry
07-03-13, 17:03
Here's my list of myths

Great Rugby Laws Myths
(1) If a player falls on the ball, you do NOT have to let him up. (You can’t put weight on him, but you can compete for the ball straight away and if he doesn’t let go...ping!)
(2) If a penalty or free kick is advanced 10m, you CAN take a quick tap once the referee has indicated the new mark. This is such a handy one, especially if the ref knows it (can’t vouch for all refs!). The instant he makes the mark, you can go.
(3) A player in a ruck CANNOT handle the ball even if he is on his feet unless (a) he had his hands on the ball before the ruck formed, or (b) he is the scrum half getting the ball out of the ruck.
(4) You CAN be offside in in-goal.
(5) It is NOT obligatory to issue a red or yellow card with a penalty try
(6) You CAN charge the conversion of a penalty try.
(7) At an uncontested scrum the Number 8 CAN break off with the ball.
(8) You MUST NOT ruck players.
(9) A Mark CAN be called from a penalty kick or drop goal attempt.
(10) You DO NOT NEED BOTH “control” and “downward pressure” to score a try.
(11) You CANNOT score a try by touching a goal post above the ground.
(12) There is NO SUCH THING as “double movement” when stretching out to score a try, its simply “not releasing” if the player hangs onto it (same outcome of course)
(13) The captain DOES NOT have an automatic right to talk to the referee when he wants to.

gwgs
07-03-13, 17:03
Or rather, that's what is correct and not myth.

Thanks for the presentation by the way!

smeagol
07-03-13, 18:03
Per a suggestion from a coach at my local club, I'm looking at "presenting" this to the high school and senior men's sides. I will give full credit, and may add other things from this thread, so please keep them coming!

Toby Warren
07-03-13, 19:03
Here's my list of myths

Great Rugby Laws Myths
(1) If a player falls on the ball, you do NOT have to let him up. (You can’t put weight on him, but you can compete for the ball straight away and if he doesn’t let go...ping!)
(2) If a penalty or free kick is advanced 10m, you CAN take a quick tap once the referee has indicated the new mark. This is such a handy one, especially if the ref knows it (can’t vouch for all refs!). The instant he makes the mark, you can go.
(3) A player in a ruck CANNOT handle the ball even if he is on his feet unless (a) he had his hands on the ball before the ruck formed, or (b) he is the scrum half getting the ball out of the ruck.
(4) You CAN be offside in in-goal.
(5) It is NOT obligatory to issue a red or yellow card with a penalty try
(6) You CAN charge the conversion of a penalty try.
(7) At an uncontested scrum the Number 8 CAN break off with the ball.
(8) You MUST NOT ruck players.
(9) A Mark CAN be called from a penalty kick or drop goal attempt.
(10) You DO NOT NEED BOTH “control” and “downward pressure” to score a try.
(11) You CANNOT score a try by touching a goal post above the ground.
(12) There is NO SUCH THING as “double movement” when stretching out to score a try, its simply “not releasing” if the player hangs onto it (same outcome of course)
(13) The captain DOES NOT have an automatic right to talk to the referee when he wants to.

Agree with all but number 12 - discussed a heap of times here you're right but double movement is widely understood in the game (albeit technically mis-described). You say double movement prevented a try I bet 99% of posters can imagine what's happened

PS top PowerPoint Phil.

Blackberry
07-03-13, 19:03
My list of myths would be enhanced i guess by law references where possible.....

OB..
07-03-13, 20:03
Agree with all but number 12 - discussed a heap of times here you're right but double movement is widely understood in the game (albeit technically mis-described). You say double movement prevented a try I bet 99% of posters can imagine what's happenedI think there is a large overlap with the truth, but there is also a built-in error. Best avoided.

Dickie E
07-03-13, 22:03
I think there is a large overlap with the truth, but there is also a built-in error. Best avoided.

Likewise avoid phrases such as "raining cats & dogs" lest the literalists get ya

OB..
08-03-13, 11:03
Likewise avoid phrases such as "raining cats & dogs" lest the literalists get yaLikewise?!

Nothing like.

Stephan
09-03-13, 01:03
Can you please send the PPT to me? I can't open it from the site for whatever reason.

thank you,

Stephan
Dutch referee

Phil E
09-03-13, 14:03
Can you please send the PPT to me? I can't open it from the site for whatever reason.

thank you,

Stephan
Dutch referee

Stephan
Check your emails.
Phil

Robert Burns
12-03-13, 00:03
I'll add it to the Wiki today if that's ok Phil.

Phil E
12-03-13, 13:03
I'll add it to the Wiki today if that's ok Phil.

Yes, fine.

menace
02-07-13, 04:07
Just thought I'd drag this one up due to the myth on the other thread that you can't touch/lean on the posts when a conversion is taking place.

The one I want to raise that we have a problem in these parts, as I saw twice in 2 weeks with the same response from the peanut gallery

The myth is:
Referee can't overrule the TJ/AR who indicates an unsuccessful goal kick (conv or PK). Even if it's only one TJ who indicates no goal then it is no goal!

Instance 1.U18 game. AR flag up, while TJ flag down (so he didn't drop his pie or spill his beer). Referee consults AR, and awards conversion. At end of game the 'Coach' refuses to believe he can do that and insists conversion does not stand as one flag down and his team had now won by 1, not lost by 1. Despite being informed of the laws, coach proceeds to submit his incorrect score to the league.

Instance 2. U13 game. (My 15 yo son who is ref). One TJ flag up, the other TJ belatedly raises his (but not sure and only followed the other guy). Son judges ball go directly over post and does not award it. TJ with flag up is adult coach of the team kicking and also a qualified referee, is not happy with referee. Referee tells TJ why he didn't award it. TJ disputes it and insists it was a goal. The Team Manager sees me dressed in my kit watching game (at this stage I've not seen or know what happened) and comes over to me.
'Excuse me, are you a coachy thingo helping young refs?'.
'Why yes I am, how can I help you?'
'Well THAT young boy referee just disallowed a conversion when the flags were up!. Surely he can't do that?'
'Actually he can, he is sole judge and he has final say if it's a goal or not. I suspect he saw the ball go directly over the top of the post and so it's not a goal and that's probably why he didn't award it. But I can't be sure, so Ill ask him after the game and find out and get back to you'.
Team manager tromps off with bewildered look on her face.

Son confirms exactly that happened. And told me he explained it to the disbelieving coach/referee. Good one son!:pepper:
I didn't bother explaining to the manager as the coach/referee was now well informed!

Rassie
21-07-13, 18:07
Can I have one

crossref
21-11-13, 17:11
i forgot to tell you all about an incident in my last game that made me smile.

.. classic kick and chase over the blue 15
.. blue15 reaches the ball first, red in hot pursuit, and blue 15 falls on it
.. (here we go, think I)
.. red player arrives and goes for the ball
.. sure enough, call from a blue player 'he's got to let him up sir!'
.. followed by another shout, 'no, he doesn't!- it's a New Law!'

Dickie E
12-09-14, 10:09
Please add "a tackle is over once the ball is off the ground" :)

menace
12-09-14, 10:09
I see what you did there dickie!

Browner
12-09-14, 12:09
Please add "a tackle is over once the ball is off the ground" :)

Or, if the ball has been passed ?

Dickie E
12-09-14, 12:09
Or, if the ball has been passed ?

3012 (msf)