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breako
20-12-06, 13:12
Hi,
Just a question on one the tries in this match last Saturday.
There is a chip through kick, into Toulouse's in-goal area.
Toulouse defender ( Cedric Heymans) and Llanelli attacker chase.
As the Toulouse defender goes to ground it, Llanelli defender falls on the the defender.
I would have thought this is illegal as the Llanelli player should have let the Toulouse player gather the ball and return to his feet.
The Llanelli player, is not making an effort to play the ball, he is not staying on his feet and he is contacting a player he does not even have the ball and is trying to play it (tackling a man without the ball).

However the try was awarded? What are my missing?

PaulDG
20-12-06, 13:12
I would have thought this is illegal as the Llanelli player should have let the Toulouse player gather the ball and return to his feet.

A player on the ground has no right to get to his feet (this is a commonly held misconception) - he must release the ball to an opposition player on his feet.


The Llanelli player, is not making an effort to play the ball, he is not staying on his feet and he is contacting a player he does not even have the ball and is trying to play it (tackling a man without the ball).

I didn't see the incident so I don't know what happened - it's possible the ref felt the player on the ground was obstructing.


However the try was awarded? What are my missing?

I don't know - sounds to me there was a case for a penalty to the defenders for falling on the man on the ground. Or perhaps, as I've said, the ref felt the defender was obstructing and was "playing advantage". (Though may not have had time to call or signal "advantage".)

breako
20-12-06, 13:12
[QUOTE=PaulDG;18044]A player on the ground has no right to get to his feet (this is a commonly held misconception) - he must release the ball to an opposition player on his feet.
[QUOTE]
He looked to me the ref got it wrong.
Also just read this match report:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/my_club/llanelli_scarlets/6169505.stm

Here it says:
"Wing Daniel was the man to touch down a clever chip through, but Toulouse's Cedric Heymans appeared to have been tackled without the ball by Davies in the scramble."

I would have said that the player falling on Heymans affecting his chances of touching the ball down.

The ref went upstairs to see if Heymans touched it down first or not, he did not of course, but he might if a player didn't fall or tackle him before he touched he down.

Bad decision by the ref, I thought.

Your comments please.

OB..
20-12-06, 14:12
If I understand the situation correctly, the ball was in the in-goal and the Toulouse defender did not fall on the ball, or it would have been a dropout.

If an attacker illegally prevented him from grounding the ball, it would be a penalty to the defence.

However two players going for the ball can get tangled up without it being illegal. Without seeing the incident, I don't see how we can decide.

Padster
20-12-06, 14:12
I saw the incident in real time and in slow motion it was an excellent refereeing decision. Both players were trying to be first to ground the ball but Heymans knocked it further into in goal with his thigh before any grounding. Daniels then scored having followed up.
In real time it looked like it was possibly a bad decision but it just shows how use of the TMO and the referral by the referee were spot on.

Coler
20-12-06, 16:12
Saw it as well - and would have penalised Daniels for an early tackle (arms come around Heyman's upper body from behind before Heyman's has the ball did not look as if Daniels is playing for the ball at all. Looked to me that he thinks mistakenly Heymans has it, hence tackled him)...

...which just goes show you, breako, that it's not so much a question of you having missed something as it is simply a subjective decision of the official with which you either agree or disagree