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Simon Thomas
02-09-14, 12:09
A RUGBY Football Union panel will meet at the London Bloomsbury Holiday Inn hotel on September 24 to consider an appeal brought by the RFU against the ten year suspension imposed on Ruislip prop Barry Lockwood.

Lockwood pleaded guilty when he appeared before an RFU panel in June to acts contrary to good sportsmanship contrary to Law 10.4(m) by physically abusing a referee by punching him in the face during a second XV match against the Honourable Artillery Company last December.

He was suspended from playing until December 7 2023.

The appeal made by the RFU Head of Discipline Gerard McEvilly under RFU Regulation 19.12.3(c) is made on the grounds that the sentence was unduly lenient.

The appeal will be heard by a panel chaired by Sir James Dingemans.

Daftmedic
02-09-14, 13:09
A RUGBY Football Union panel will meet at the London Bloomsbury Holiday Inn hotel on September 24 to consider an appeal brought by the RFU against the ten year suspension imposed on Ruislip prop Barry Lockwood.

Lockwood pleaded guilty when he appeared before an RFU panel in June to acts contrary to good sportsmanship contrary to Law 10.4(m) by physically abusing a referee by punching him in the face during a second XV match against the Honourable Artillery Company last December.

He was suspended from playing until December 7 2023.

The appeal made by the RFU Head of Discipline Gerard McEvilly under RFU Regulation 19.12.3(c) is made on the grounds that the sentence was unduly lenient.

The appeal will be heard by a panel chaired by Sir James Dingemans QC

just helping

Bunniksider
02-09-14, 13:09
What is the motivation for appealing this sentance? The man is 48 and reports to be so remorseful that he has removed himself from the rugby community.

On a similar note I beleive that a Lancashire disciplinay panel "awarded" an 80 week ban for a case of striking a match official earlier this year. So 10 years seems plenty.

Browner
02-09-14, 13:09
What is the motivation for appealing this sentance? The man is 48 and reports to be so remorseful that he has removed himself from the rugby community.


Post event remorse has been known to be acted up, or fade.
Often we are seeing ' precedent' type cases referred to in other decisions ( Drawbridge ) was referred to in a recent case . The next case might be a 20yr old not a retirement approachee.

Perhaps, defence lawyers would use Lockwood as their negotiating ' from' position, and the RFU might want to avoid that??

Some might start looking towards liability/damages/culpability claims as this catalyst.

OB..
02-09-14, 13:09
When this happened locally, the player was given a sine die ban, but allowed to apply for re-instatemnt after 5 years. He did, and it was granted.

menace
02-09-14, 13:09
What is the motivation for appealing this sentance? The man is 48 and reports to be so remorseful that he has removed himself from the rugby community.


At a 'wild' guess...motivation that smacking the ref is simply not on...no matter how old you are or how remorseful you think you'll be.
Perhaps the 48 yo might miss a few years playing rugby....but meanwhile what has happened to the ref? He is probably lost to the game already!

A ref should be able to walk out there and not be concerned about having his head knocked off by a player. As far as I'm concerned, punch a ref in the face and you're gone for life.

Browner
02-09-14, 14:09
A RUGBY Football Union panel will meet at the London Bloomsbury Holiday Inn hotel on September 24 to consider an appeal brought by the RFU against the ten year suspension imposed on Ruislip prop Barry Lockwood.

Lockwood pleaded guilty when he appeared before an RFU panel in June to acts contrary to good sportsmanship contrary to Law 10.4(m) by physically abusing a referee by punching him in the face during a second XV match against the Honourable Artillery Company last December.

He was suspended from playing until December 7 2023.

The appeal made by the RFU Head of Discipline Gerard McEvilly under RFU Regulation 19.12.3(c) is made on the grounds that the sentence was unduly lenient.

The appeal will be heard by a panel chaired by Sir James Dingemans.

Simon,
Ignoring the appeal for the moment, I do find myself thinking that merely classifying these type of assaults into
" acts contrary to good sportsmanship" dilutes the subject, as its lost/hidden among the miriad of other AC2GS committed season by season.

If RFU are serious about protecting their (sometimes volunteer) officials, then isn't a separate more visible, and more powerfully deterrent display platform publicity etc ..... required ?

Perhaps some of the millions earned from RWC 2015 could be earmarked ? .... I know its not your ownership, but I'm just saying

Browner
02-09-14, 14:09
When this happened locally, the player was given a sine die ban, but allowed to apply for re-instatemnt after 5 years. He did, and it was granted.

& the referee, continue or pack up?

crossref
02-09-14, 14:09
in this current case I know the referee invovled - as no doubt do several others on the board - and he continues ..

Here's the RFU judgement
http://www.rfu.com/thegame/discipline/judgements/judgments-2013-2014/judgments-by-club/community-game/~/media/files/2014/discipline/17th%20july%20uploads/lockwoodruislipjudgmentjul14.ashx

And here's Roger's write up on the LSRFUR site
http://www.londonrugby.com/news.html

TheBFG
02-09-14, 14:09
no excuse for striking a ref :nono: should never have done a half each (still no excuse though).

Question........ Player strikes a player and goes to prison for 6 months, player strikes a ref and gets a slap on the wrist and a fine :chin:

Browner
02-09-14, 14:09
in this current case I know the referee invovled - as no doubt do several others on the board - and he continues ..

Here's the RFU judgement
http://www.rfu.com/thegame/discipline/judgements/judgments-2013-2014/judgments-by-club/community-game/~/media/files/2014/discipline/17th%20july%20uploads/lockwoodruislipjudgmentjul14.ashx

And here's Roger's write up on the LSRFUR site
http://www.londonrugby.com/news.html

Awful. and scarrng both physically and mentally. Done well to get back on that horse so quick.

I'm picturing those matches when refs are alone, without all the other refs and senior society people nearby. Bad image.......destroy...Gulp!

The main bit that I've taken from this is that at Grassroots level especially, there is no extra value in " calling the player over " ......

Then, If ' aggrieved' starts heading toward you, you gain reaction/avoidance time. Hopefully no-one ever experiences similar.

colesy
02-09-14, 18:09
On a similar note I beleive that a Lancashire disciplinay panel "awarded" an 80 week ban for a case of striking a match official earlier this year. So 10 years seems plenty.

I remember seeing this one when it first popped up on the north west leagues website and chatting about it at my club. We all said at first "that's a long time" but after thinking about it for no more than a few seconds, it sunk in that it was less than 2 years. The offence is listed as "striking a match referee". 2 years doesn't seem very long - and surprising because in my experience the Lancs CB is not a soft touch in these matters.

chbg
02-09-14, 20:09
Isn't the point of an x week ban that it only includes in-season weeks? So 2 and a bit seasons. Still not very long.

Simon Thomas
02-09-14, 21:09
just helping

And do you know his Bench, Inn and Chambers ?

OB..
02-09-14, 22:09
& the referee, continue or pack up?He continued. He was experienced, and realised it was a very unusual occurrence. He was not really injured.

dave_clark
02-09-14, 22:09
dental work in the thousands sounds injured to me...

Daftmedic
02-09-14, 23:09
And do you know his Bench, Inn and Chambers ?
If you mean what part of Hogwarts he is in then yes I do.:horse:

Rushforth
02-09-14, 23:09
dental work in the thousands sounds injured to me...

It was just under a thousand, but the work couldn't be done for 4 months because of the injury, is how I read it.

I do feel some pity for the player, and the reasoning does make some sense (reducing entry level from 20 to 10 years because of previous good behaviour and genuine remorse, for those that didn't read the whole decision), BUT:

Being banned from rugby is not the equivalent of a prison sentence. Convicted criminals sentenced to "life" should have, on an individual basis, at least the chance of parole after some period.

No such leniency should be offered to rugby players who physically assault referees. Obviously pushing is not assault, but this was not a push.

That said, in the case of a freak incident such as this, it would make sense to separate the playing of rugby and the enjoyment of it. Ban the perpetrator from playing for life (means life, no appeal). Touch-line ban for a five years, but consider a request for repeal after 2 years, just picking two round numbers.

And above all, respect to the referee concerned for not letting it get him down. I'd like to think I'd do the same thing, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be back the very next weekend with a painful jaw and missing tooth.

crossref
03-09-14, 07:09
Life penalties are inappropriate, having some chance of redemption, however slim, is a precious thing.

Simon Thomas
03-09-14, 07:09
If you mean what part of Hogwarts he is in then yes I do.:horse:

Hardly - James took silk in 2002 from 3 Hare Court Inner Temple and in June 2013 was appointed a High Court Judge and assigned to Queen's Bench Division, getting the usual sword on his shoulder for that. Sports Law is one of his specialities and he has been involved in various reviews for the Rugby League and in 2011 carried out the FA's independent review into the World Cup Bid Allegations.

Daftmedic
03-09-14, 09:09
Hardly - James took silk in 2002 from 3 Hare Court Inner Temple and in June 2013 was appointed a High Court Judge and assigned to Queen's Bench Division, getting the usual sword on his shoulder for that. Sports Law is one of his specialities and he has been involved in various reviews for the Rugby League and in 2011 carried out the FA's independent review into the World Cup Bid Allegations.
I've been to the INNS and I believe that particular one has a pegasus. And yes. They are like Hogwarts. I'm at Hogwarts for a X v Large Government Agency. Which is to go before Queens @ Royal Court of justices.
All in all I've got quite used to that particular INN.

:offtopic:

FlipFlop
03-09-14, 09:09
dental work in the thousands sounds injured to me...

I think OB was referring to the referee in the his neck of the woods, not LSRFUR incident. I saw the photos on Facebook of the LSRFUR incident, and he was certainly injured.

dave_clark
03-09-14, 12:09
ah, that makes sense!

SimonSmith
03-09-14, 13:09
Life penalties are inappropriate, having some chance of redemption, however slim, is a precious thing.

I disagree. Some 'crimes', be they on the field or in real life, are so far beyond the pale that redemption shouldn't be considered. That's why Judges can hand down Whole Life terms, and we can have Life bans. Cold blooded rational striking of the referee IS such an offence

crossref
03-09-14, 15:09
I disagree. Some 'crimes', be they on the field or in real life, are so far beyond the pale that redemption shouldn't be considered. That's why Judges can hand down Whole Life terms, and we can have Life bans. Cold blooded rational striking of the referee IS such an offence

I was talking about rugby disciplinaries not hideous criminal offences.

In the context of rugby disciplinaries : I disagree. Life is a long time and should be possible - in theory - to find redemption. What if he serves a ban for a few years and then wholeheartedly wants to make amends and retunr something to the game
maybe he wants become a ref. Or an U7s coach, or club treasurer, or start a rugby club in his local iner city school.
could you not see your way to allow - say - a 45 year old who once punched a referee when he was 27 to nevertheless become an assistant coach for his son's U7.

Pegleg
03-09-14, 16:09
No such leniency should be offered to rugby players who physically assault referees. Obviously pushing is not assault, but this was not a push.

That said, in the case of a freak incident such as this, it would make sense to separate the playing of rugby and the enjoyment of it. Ban the perpetrator from playing for life (means life, no appeal). Touch-line ban for a five years, but consider a request for repeal after 2 years, just picking two round numbers.

And above all, respect to the referee concerned for not letting it get him down. I'd like to think I'd do the same thing, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be back the very next weekend with a painful jaw and missing tooth.

Three things strike me here.

1, A push is an assault (a lower entry point on the scale. True) but if a player pushed me I would be reporting him for assaulting an official.

2, You say "(Means life, no appeal).... consider a request for repeal after x years". This has me confused. A person should always have the right to appeal a verdict and / or sentence if he feels it to be wrong / unfair. Clearly an appeal may, in law be restricted to being subject to new evidence or other criteria. Banning any appeal is a dangerous road to go down. On the subject of a possible cancellation (repeal) of the ban. An earlier poster seems to suggest a review of the ban after a period. Again subject to criteria.

3, Agree totally. well done to the referee. If it happened to me I think I might take up fishing instead.

SimonSmith
03-09-14, 16:09
Honestly?

I'd struggle with it. At 27, he's a grown man. A 16 year old? Yeah, mebbes. But an adult? He should be taking on the responsibility for his own actions. That's how life works.