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Taffy
14-09-14, 21:09
Yesterday, friendly (????) arranged at short notice.

Very one sided contest between blue and white.

White are 60 points to nil at around 65 minutes gone.

Large handbags (I did not see what started it off sadly!)

I remember what I have been told by advisors, don't go in, just stand there blowing your whistle and telling them that you are there and can see what is going on. I had obviously missed a punch or two......or three. Whilst I am stood thee blowing the pea out of the whistle, a player from white reaches over and pulls my hand and whistle out of my mouth..............

Eventually the fracas stops and I eyeball the miscreant and call him over with the skipper.

I am thinking red.

Then I am putting it into context and materiality (friendly, last 15 minutes, no previous incidents).
Still unsure. Trying to get some thinking time.

He comes over and starts talking to me. "Shut up" says the skipper, "Listen".

I ask him how old he is "21" he says. I tell him that he should never, ever touch a ref. Normally anything like that is a red card incident. I tell him that he needs to learn a lesson and today he should count himself very fortunate. I show him a yellow card.

Ten minutes after they want to bring him back on. I tell the skipper "your call, but I think he is still hot headed, leave him off".

Still very unsure about the call, and would appreciate as many opinions on it as our wonderful forum can muster. My gut feeling is that I probably got it wrong and I should have given a red. But happy to be told I am wrong. And also happy to have as many comments as possible.

Never a dull moment in this game is there?

DrSTU
14-09-14, 22:09
STRAIGHT RED CARD EVERY TIME

Seriously though, if that's not screaming red card to you then what's your tolerance level set at?

Pegleg
14-09-14, 22:09
STRAIGHT RED CARD EVERY TIME

Seriously though, if that's not screaming red card to you then what's your tolerance level set at?

Spot on.

smeagol
14-09-14, 23:09
I'm with DrSTU. That HAS to be red, every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

SimonSmith
14-09-14, 23:09
Off. Straight off. Go directly to changing rooms. Do not pass Go, do not collect YC.

I echo the learned Dr - what would someone have to do in order to get sent off?

Ian_Cook
15-09-14, 00:09
:norc:

All day long
Every day of the week
Friendly match or not
No ifs
No buts
No maybes

Dickie E
15-09-14, 01:09
what an odd thing to do. Were you blowing it in his ear?

Taffy
15-09-14, 04:09
what an odd thing to do. Were you blowing it in his ear?

Probably, pretty much.

That's what he actually said to me. I was probably a bit too close, but I was concerned it wasn't finishing quickly.

Feeling now is that my initial reaction was right and it should have been a red.

Should materiality and context come into this?

Lee Lifeson-Peart
15-09-14, 07:09
No you're right I've never had this.

RC as above.

What if he'd broken a tooth (teeth)?

If you're intial reaction was red then it almost certainly was.

Much as pains me to say it I suspect he'd be off in ANY other sport.

If the 21 year old never gets sent off in the rest of his career you may have been right however I suspect anyone who can't control himself to that extent is probably destined never to go through a season without seeing red.

smeagol
15-09-14, 07:09
Should materiality and context come into this?

Absolutely not. Under no reasonable circumstances should a player in this situation put his hands on an official.

Phil E
15-09-14, 07:09
As others :norc:

However, one thing, standing there blowing your whistle non stop isn't going to achieve anything.


just stand there blowing your whistle and telling them that you are there and can see what is going on

Two or three long loud blasts is about enough. If they haven't taken any notice by then, they aren't going to.

Step back to increase your vision of people entering the fray, takes names and colours. How close were you to the event for a player to reach out like that. I would be walking backwards as I was blowing to widen my view of what was happening, stepping away from the fray.

Lee Lifeson-Peart
15-09-14, 07:09
On a positive note you seemed to have kept your cool in the situation.

Lee Lifeson-Peart
15-09-14, 08:09
Step back to increase your vision of people entering the fray, takes names and colours. How close were you to the event for a player to reach out like that. I would be walking backwards as I was blowing to widen my view of what was happening, stepping away from the fray.

I had a handbag session in a game in August and did as above.

One of the coaches suggested I should have been in trying to stop it.

He "accused" me of blowing my whistle a couple of times and just standing back and watching.

F*$%g numbskull!! :biggrin:

Pegleg
15-09-14, 09:09
Should materiality and context come into this?

NO they should not.

However:

1: It certainly was material. The player removed one of your communication tools from you. Thus impacting on your ability to control the situation and the game.

2; The context is a player assaulted the official.

So either way - :rc:

Phil E
15-09-14, 09:09
I had a handbag session in a game in August and did as above.

One of the coaches suggested I should have been in trying to stop it.

He "accused" me of blowing my whistle a couple of times and just standing back and watching.

F*$%g numbskull!! :biggrin:

Had similar in a game in Gloucester :rolleyes: Stood back and took names. Skipper stood next to me and said "aren't you going to stop them?" I said "aren't you?" "Fair point" he said, then we both stood back and watched his winger come in late and throw a punch. He just looked at me, smiled, and nodded.

crossref
15-09-14, 09:09
I have no trouble standing back - they are all angry, and bigger than me!

Phil E
15-09-14, 09:09
I have no trouble standing back - they are all angry, and bigger than me!

..........and that's just the Under 13's :pepper:

andyscott
15-09-14, 10:09
Materiality did come into it, you didnt knock F*^k out of him.

Anyone touches me and the red card is the least they can expect.

matty1194
15-09-14, 10:09
Their is no such game as a "friendly", all players will want to better their opposite number and their is always the potential for a flare up.

In this situation RC all day from me, materiality and CJ dont even come into this, as others have said a couple of long loud blasts on the whistle, step back and watch what happens, then get it sorted out with relevent people going to sit down either for a short or a long rest!

And first thing when back home would be to get the report all written up and sent straight off to the Discipline blokes to get the process started.

TheBFG
15-09-14, 10:09
AS PhilE said, give a couple of blasts, then stand back and take notes :wink:

Funny enough had one on Saturday, why is always the backs that come in with the cheap shots???? :norc:

Browner
15-09-14, 11:09
I had a handbag session in a game in August and did as above.

One of the coaches suggested I should have been in trying to stop it.

He "accused" me of blowing my whistle a couple of times and just standing back and watching.

:biggrin:
In some Gloucester clubs, the coach would be in there, chucking hay makers ... :-)

ctrainor
15-09-14, 13:09
Don't forget to print this thread off and next time you see him tell him he owes you a beer or 3!!

winchesterref
15-09-14, 13:09
Funny enough had one on Saturday, why is always the backs that come in with the cheap shots???? :norc:

Because most of them are too soft to get fully involved, so stand back, pick your moment and deliver the goods is the sensible way to not get yourself crushed by an angry forward!

Ian_Cook
15-09-14, 14:09
Because most of them are too soft to get fully involved, so stand back, pick your moment and deliver the goods is the sensible way to not get yourself crushed by an angry forward!

That sounds a lot like one of RAF Fighter Pilot Adolph "Sailor" Malan's Ten Rules for Air Fighting

"Go in quickly - Punch hard - Get out!"

Phil E
15-09-14, 14:09
That sounds a lot like one of RAF Fighter Pilot Adolph "Sailor" Malan's Ten Rules for Air Fighting

"Go in quickly - Punch hard - Get out!"

Well as a South African he would know all about cheap shots :biggrin:

Daftmedic
15-09-14, 15:09
Well as a South African he would know all about cheap shots :biggrin:



Ooowwwwwwwwww.
Let me grab some popcorn

Blackberry
15-09-14, 15:09
Do you remember the Eng vs SA game where England seemed to get roundly punched around (still won), after the match an SA spokesman said one of "our players got thumped too, and we don't go round hitting our own players".... only to find on the replay that that was what had happened, a stray punch had missed an Englishman and gone on to thump a SA'n. He must still wake up at night screaming about that interview. :)

irishref
15-09-14, 16:09
OK wrong sport and not totally related, but I remember playing soccer about 20 years ago when i moved here (didn't know about Dutch rugby when I came) and in one game our striker was getting a lot of cheap kicks to the ankles and shoves in the back from their centre back. Our striker was 5'8, stocky and bit of a nutcase, the centre back must have been 6'5 and looked like an angry lock in the O'Connell mode.

At some point our striker must have issued a final warning to this bald monster, because the last thing I remember of the game is after the final ankle cutter, he turned around, used this colossus' shoulders for leverage, pulled himself to get head to head and headbutted him twice before they both fell to the ground in a heap.

Needless to say, the ref called the game off at that point but strangely enough nobody else from either team saw fit to intervene!

Daftmedic
15-09-14, 22:09
OK wrong sport and not totally related, but I remember playing soccer about 20 years ago when i moved here (didn't know about Dutch rugby when I came) and in one game our striker was getting a lot of cheap kicks to the ankles and shoves in the back from their centre back. Our striker was 5'8, stocky and bit of a nutcase, the centre back must have been 6'5 and looked like an angry lock in the O'Connell mode.

At some point our striker must have issued a final warning to this bald monster, because the last thing I remember of the game is after the final ankle cutter, he turned around, used this colossus' shoulders for leverage, pulled himself to get head to head and headbutted him twice before they both fell to the ground in a heap.

Needless to say, the ref called the game off at that point but strangely enough nobody else from either team saw fit to intervene!

This happen a lot in Holland? Just asking. Be there in a week and a bit:chin::shrug::horse:

OB..
15-09-14, 23:09
Do you remember the Eng vs SA game where England seemed to get roundly punched around (still won), after the match an SA spokesman said one of "our players got thumped too, and we don't go round hitting our own players".... only to find on the replay that that was what had happened, a stray punch had missed an Englishman and gone on to thump a SA'n. He must still wake up at night screaming about that interview. :)Rudi Straeuli - one time Bedford coach.

Ian_Cook
16-09-14, 03:09
Well as a South African he would know all about cheap shots :biggrin:


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/Smilies/doglaugh.gif

Dixie
16-09-14, 13:09
AS PhilE said, give a couple of blasts, then stand back and take notes :wink:

Funny enough had one on Saturday, why is always the backs that come in with the cheap shots???? :norc:

That's because it takes us some time to ensure our hair is properly in place before entering the focus of the crowd's attention. Also, if we just watch from the sidelines tutting about Neanderthal behaviour among the fat boys, you lot accuse us of not being team players, and give us even less ball than usual to play with.

Taffy
27-09-14, 21:09
Just to say a big thank you to all the posters. Clearly after not being afraid to issue 7 red cards in my first season I have gone a bit soft in my old age. I thought it was red at the time and should have stuck to my original thoughts! Guess that is the way you learn! Thanks to all, again really helpful!

Nigib
27-09-14, 22:09
Yes, red. If he felt you were too loud and was too close to you, he should have moved away...