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Chogan
11-10-14, 23:10
Wow!!!

winchesterref
11-10-14, 23:10
Just seen the forearm smash followed up by BF's punches and the mass brawl. Surprised only 1 card emerged really, 2nd punch hugely out of order, first one at least understandable (but clearly not condoned!).

winchesterref
11-10-14, 23:10
http://youtu.be/UrPBnxacK2Q

leaguerefaus
12-10-14, 03:10
Unbelievable. Aside from the fact that's disgusting in any match, what a selfish prick for leaving his team down to 12 men for 78mins in the grand final. Just shocking.

Ian_Cook
12-10-14, 07:10
That is beyond disgraceful. It shouldn't just be a red card, it should be a couple of years banned from the game, and then criminal assault charges.

dave_clark
12-10-14, 09:10
wow - the first punch was bad enough, but to follow up again on the deck...

although something that gary lineker twittered might amuse - "If only other team sports could match the on-field behaviour of football."

:wtf:

RobLev
12-10-14, 10:10
Holding down a dazed player and deliberately targeting his eye; that's not a rush of blood, it's deliberate cold-blooded brutality. He should be looking at a GBH/attempted GBH charge (depending on injury caused), and definitely ABH. He won't of course - it'll be a 2-3 week ban and NFA.

Simon Thomas
12-10-14, 10:10
Disgraceful in this modern professional age of either code of rugby.

We can only hope at his club dismisses him, that no other club will pick up his contract, and the RL authorities give him a long long ban.

Police action for assault should also be prosecuted.

dave_clark
12-10-14, 10:10
Disgraceful in this modern professional age of either code of rugby.

We can only hope at his club dismisses him, that no other club will pick up his contract, and the RL authorities give him a long long ban.



sadly not going to happen, his coach has already publicly backed him.

The Fat
12-10-14, 11:10
sadly not going to happen, his coach has already publicly backed him.

What, even though his player turned his whole club's season to shite in just 2 minutes?

winchesterref
12-10-14, 11:10
Yes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/29586010

Simon Thomas
12-10-14, 11:10
sadly not going to happen, his coach has already publicly backed him.

In which case the coach should be fired too.

Browner
12-10-14, 12:10
I was surprised by the Red Card , I can only imagine he must've used some inappropriate RL language .( take that you blaggard )

Cos in RL, that thuggery must surely only get a 'on report' sanction at worst !?!?!?

:-!

RobLev
12-10-14, 12:10
In which case the coach should be fired too.

Not going to happen - he's just been given a new 3-year contract...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/29576510

Treadmore
12-10-14, 13:10
sadly not going to happen, his coach has already publicly backed him.

"backed him" in the sense of stand by him after he's received his punishment to make sure it doesn't happen again. He didn't defend his action, to be fair


Asked how he could defend the punch, Wane responded: "You can't. It's a rush of blood.
"It's the Wigan-Saints derby and everybody is getting whacked off the ball and he made an error.
"He'll be really upset with what he's done to his team-mates, but that's just the character and why we love Ben Flower so much.
"The RFL will deal with that [the punishment] accordingly, and whatever he gets, I'll stand by him. I'll make sure he understands that sort of thing can't happen again.
"He'll learn. There will be nobody who needs to have a go at Ben Flower for that, as he'll be feeling bad today."


Personally I'd like to see a long ban (at least one season) and a prosecution though I doubt either will happen.

I don't suppose the build-up to these games helps either, for example BBC headlines the day before referring to "bitter hatred" between the teams http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/29520154

I didn't like reading that headline the day before either.

ctrainor
12-10-14, 16:10
What that clip doesn't show is the wigan player hitting the saints player off the ball following the initial high kick, that's waht insensed the saints guy into the forearm smash.
Saints guy actually should have got a yellow for starting it even though he was knocked out.

RobLev
12-10-14, 17:10
"backed him" in the sense of stand by him after he's received his punishment to make sure it doesn't happen again. He didn't defend his action, to be fair


Originally Posted by BBC
Asked how he could defend the punch, Wane responded: "You can't. It's a rush of blood.
"It's the Wigan-Saints derby and everybody is getting whacked off the ball and he made an error.
"He'll be really upset with what he's done to his team-mates, but that's just the character and why we love Ben Flower so much.
"The RFL will deal with that [the punishment] accordingly, and whatever he gets, I'll stand by him. I'll make sure he understands that sort of thing can't happen again.
"He'll learn. There will be nobody who needs to have a go at Ben Flower for that, as he'll be feeling bad today."

...



The coach doesn't get it, does he? It isn't "What he's done to his team-mates" that matters; it's what he did to the Saints player. That is what he should be feeling bad about; and what, given the coach's reaction, is what someone needs to "have a go at Ben Flower" about

RobLev
12-10-14, 17:10
What that clip doesn't show is the wigan player hitting the saints player off the ball following the initial high kick, that's waht insensed the saints guy into the forearm smash.
Saints guy actually should have got a yellow for starting it even though he was knocked out.

Not quite sure how the Saints player started it if he was reacting to to the Wigan player hitting the Saints player off the ball? :shrug:

4eyesbetter
12-10-14, 18:10
Here's a better clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkL4eN4jpWE

"He was reacting" is a massive red herring and hopefully whoever passes sentence will see that. The alleged "forearm smash" is only one when watched through cherry-tinted specs.

Ian_Cook
12-10-14, 20:10
Here's a better clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkL4eN4jpWE

"He was reacting" is a massive red herring and hopefully whoever passes sentence will see that. The alleged "forearm smash" is only one when watched through cherry-tinted specs.


That forearm from Hohaia is just par for the course in RL. You see that every day of the week in both SL and NRL. At the absolute worst it gets "on report" if its a bad one.

What Flower did however was an act of vicious, mindless thuggery. That he lined Hohaia up with the punch which knocked him cold was bad enough, but to then pin down the unconscious player and punch him in the eye-socket was simply unacceptable and the act of a rank coward.

Flower does not deserve the privilege of playing any kind of team sport. If I was his manager/coach, I would cut him loose just as soon as I could. I would want to put some distance between him and my team and myself.

Also, I don't buy the rush of blood excuse. No-one can perpetrate such an act unless they have a predisposition to that kind of criminal violence. He really ought to be changed by the Police with assault/battery/GBH/ABH whichever is appropriate in English Law.

MrQeu
12-10-14, 23:10
I don't get them RL boys.

Punching in the face is perfectly acceptable because there was an unacceptable forearm shove.

Well, that escalated quickly.

Taff
13-10-14, 00:10
That forearm from Hohaia is just par for the course in RL. You see that every day of the week in both SL and NRL. At the absolute worst it gets "on report" if its a bad one.
I've seen a video on FB of the forearm smash to Flowers' chops. I think it may explain the "rush of blood" for the first punch at least. Nothing much explains the 2nd punch apart from red mist.

TBH I would have :norc: both of them.

RobLev
13-10-14, 04:10
I've seen a video on FB of the forearm smash to Flowers' chops. I think it may explain the "rush of blood" for the first punch at least. Nothing much explains the 2nd punch apart from red mist.

TBH I would have :norc: both of them.

Not even the first punch. It started with a cheap shot by Flowers on Hohaia while the ball was in the air which took Hohaia off his feet (see at 0.13 on 4eyesbetter's clip - the incident is the two players coming together about 22m out); he then chased Flower and shoulder-charged him, and got the two punches back for his pains.

Ian_Cook
13-10-14, 08:10
The British Police are looking at investigating this as a case of assualt...

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/police-may-investigate-ben-flowers-vicious-attack-in-super-league-grand-final-20141013-11551x.html

Andrew1974
13-10-14, 10:10
I've watched this back a few times, the first offence appears (to me at least) to be by Flowers, shortly after the kick goes up, seems to be a bit of a push on Hohaia as they are following the ball. Hohaia then reacts with the shove / forearm for which he gets punched and goes to ground. Can't explain the second punch though...just plain thuggery!

leaguerefaus
13-10-14, 21:10
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/13/ben-flower-charged-wigan-st-helens

Minimum eight weeks.

Dickie E
13-10-14, 22:10
Is SL a summer sport hence the Grand Final in October?

leaguerefaus
14-10-14, 02:10
Is SL a summer sport hence the Grand Final in October?

I'd struggle to call any sport a summer sport in England.

Browner
14-10-14, 13:10
I've seen a video on FB of the forearm smash to Flowers' chops. I think it may explain the "rush of blood" for the first punch at least. Nothing much explains the 2nd punch apart from red mist.
.

Granted it looks worse in slo mo , but the targeting of the eye area appears calculatingly deliberate .... And doesn't fit into my definition of a red mist action !

The code needs to send a strong message throughout all tiers of the game, will it?...we await

irishref
14-10-14, 18:10
just reading he's been given 6 months...

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/14/ben-flower-wigan-st-helens-six-month-ban

collybs
14-10-14, 18:10
Of which nearly 4 months are close season

dave_clark
14-10-14, 18:10
13 game ban for punching someone who was already knocked out (at least, that's how the reports have it).

seems light.

irishref
14-10-14, 18:10
do they not ensure the ban covers in-season periods in Rugby League, as we do in Union?

Ian_Cook
14-10-14, 20:10
Of which nearly 4 months are close season


He will also miss selection for Wales

v Scotland (Oct 17)
v France (Oct 25)
v Ireland (Nov 4)

4eyesbetter
15-10-14, 10:10
do they not ensure the ban covers in-season periods in Rugby League, as we do in Union?

A typical ban will at all levels be expressed in terms of matches missed, not days/weeks/months, so yes. This will have been calculated with an eye on the number of matches it's actually going to put him out for.

Browner
15-10-14, 12:10
A typical ban will at all levels be expressed in terms of matches missed, not days/weeks/months, so yes. This will have been calculated with an eye on the number of matches it's actually going to put him out for.

So that's 10 competitive 'SL' matches , obviously way way way over the 8 minimum for a grade F offence

http://www.superleague.co.uk/about_sl/disciplinary

Ian_Cook
15-10-14, 12:10
So that's 10 competitive 'SL' matches , obviously way way way over the 8 minimum for a grade F offence

http://www.superleague.co.uk/about_sl/disciplinary


And the Internationals and the pre-season matches as well.

Missing pre-season might not seem like much, but it can put a player behind the 8 ball in terms of match fitness.

Still think its light though, given the viciousness of the attack. I would have liked tom have seen him miss at least half the 2015 season.

[off topic]
Can anyone familiar with UK Superleague explain why there are 27 regular season games with a competition comprising 14 teams? If each team plays home and away ties than that would normally be 26 matches. Where does the extra match come from?

Lee Lifeson-Peart
15-10-14, 13:10
And the Internationals and the pre-season matches as well.

Missing pre-season might not seem like much, but it can put a player behind the 8 ball in terms of match fitness.

Still think its light though, given the viciousness of the attack. I would have liked tom have seen him miss at least half the 2015 season.

[off topic]
Can anyone familiar with UK Superleague explain why there are 27 regular season games with a competition comprising 14 teams? If each team plays home and away ties than that would normally be 26 matches. Where does the extra match come from?

Magic Weekend -I'd guess.

All 14 teams play 7 games over two days at one ground (Man City's last year) start at 13h00 finish at 20h00 on a weekend in May.

I go - it's a good weekend - costs about 50 for a match ticket for the 2 days.

It's been at Murrayfield and Millenium and is at Newcastle Utd's St James Park in 2015.

I think they tried it as a season opener but sitting watching Rugby for 12 hours in February was a numbskull's idea.

leaguerefaus
15-10-14, 13:10
Magic Weekend -I'd guess.

All 14 teams play 7 games over two days at one ground (Man City's last year) start at 13h00 finish at 20h00 on a weekend in May.

I go it's a good weekend - costs about 50 for a match ticket for the 2 days.

It's been at Murrayfield and Millenium and is at Newcastle Utd's St James Park in 2015.

I think they tried it as a season opener but sitting watching Rugby for 12 hours in February was a numbskull's idea.
Wiki agrees. Once at home, once away, plus a magic weekend fixture.

Browner
16-10-14, 12:10
Its x10 SL games , international player status (or not) or friendlies are irrelevant.

I'm wondering how you could get more than a 'near bottom end' of "F" sanction?, perhaps be insincere with your (PR scripted) apology?!!!

leaguerefaus
16-10-14, 12:10
Its x10 SL games , international player status (or not) or friendlies are irrelevant.

I'm wondering how you could get more than a 'near bottom end' of "F" sanction?, perhaps be insincere with your (PR scripted) apology?!!!
I think you need to kill the opponent for that.

Browner
16-10-14, 12:10
Nah, ..... Him and his family, .....maybe then?

Fatboy_Ginge
16-10-14, 12:10
Is SL a summer sport hence the Grand Final in October?

I believe that the thugby league players aren't man enough to play rugby properly hence they moved it to the summer so the poor little diddums didn't get too cold.

Just my opinion

Browner
16-10-14, 13:10
I believe that the thugby league players aren't man enough to play rugby properly hence they moved it to the summer so the poor little diddums didn't get too cold.

Just my opinion
Or ....they hoped spectator numbers increase in warmer weather.

4eyesbetter
16-10-14, 21:10
I believe that the thugby league players aren't man enough to play rugby properly hence they moved it to the summer so the poor little diddums didn't get too cold.

Just my opinion

You may be interested in this fearless piece of news reporting. (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/rugby-union-afraid-of-rugby-league-2014101391646)



RUGBY union players live in constant fear of encountering their league counterparts, it has emerged.

Browner
01-05-15, 12:05
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/32525472

This caught my eye. ......


In a statement, the club said: "Lance has been a valued and integral member of the squad for the last three and a half years and we thank him for his service. We wish him and his family well in their life after rugby league with St Helens.
All standard so far, & then


St Helens will make no further comment on this matter."

An unusual concluding comment ...:chin:

4eyesbetter
01-05-15, 19:05
Well, what do you want them to say? "Yeah, he's just taken one of our key players out of the game and we're going to give him a damn good kicking next time he plays us?"

Ian_Cook
01-05-15, 20:05
Well, what do you want them to say? "Yeah, he's just taken one of our key players out of the game and we're going to give him a damn good kicking next time he plays us?"


Huh!?

It was the other way around!