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Mr.Christopher
21-10-14, 16:10
I am using the following clip for reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c25Se0kDxNw

Above.. white starts with 2 men in the LO, and a player at the receiver position at least 2m back from the Line of Touch (LoT). The hooker throws the ball, and the receiver runs into the line to act as a jumper... as he is very much allowed to do.

19.9a - Lineout begins. The lineout begins when the ball leaves the hands of the player throwing it in.

So... when can the "receiver" join the line?

19.8i - Where the receiver must stand. If a team uses a receiver, then that player, must be positioned at least 2m back from team mates in the lineout, and between the 5m and 15m lines, until the lineout begins.

Once the lineout has commenced, the receiver may move into the lineout and may perform all actions available to players in the lineout and is liable to related sanctions.

So.... we're fine with where the receiver starts, and with when he joins the line.

Now... keep in mind that they are close to the receiver's goal line.

The original receiver, NOW the jumper... brings the ball down and pops it to another player standing in the "receiver" position. (Lineout still in progress... as it has not yet moved a meter, nor gone inside the 5 or beyond the 15).

WAIT a second... where the hell did this new receiver come from? Should everyone else from the receiving team have been back behind the offside line (in this case, the goal line)?

So... and HERE'S MY QUESTION: Isn't the player who ends up receiving the ball, technically offside?

Looking at this, I would penalize white for Offside at the LO and... as I can't march them back 10m to where the actual offside line is (due to the LoT being the 5m line).... I would make the mark at the 15m line, located 5m from the goal line, and give the ball to blue.

Right?

Phil E
21-10-14, 16:10
Two white players offside, stepping in front of the offside line before the ball leaves the lineout.

PK in line with the offside player on the 5m line. Its not a lineout offence (by a lineout player), so no need to take it to the 15m line.

Browner
21-10-14, 16:10
Following on from the other thread running at the moment, they would have 'indicated' x2 , yet commenced the LO with x3

The more I read about the interpretation differences, the more I'm favouring a ' min x2 - no maximum - no offence for overloading ... Law change '

Unequal numbers has largely disappeared as an issue since ' lifting' has been perfected.

OB..
21-10-14, 17:10
The more I read about the interpretation differences, the more I'm favouring a ' min x2 - no maximum - no offence for overloading ... Law change 'That sounds like the ELV that did not work. With no numbers rule, defenders tended to put 4 or 5 players in every lineout, and the throwing side had no real opportunity to try tactical variations. It killed the short lineout.

Mr.Christopher
21-10-14, 17:10
Hi Phil, thanks for the reply:

19.15 - Offside when not taking part in the Line Out:

19.15a - A player who is not taking part in the lineout is offside if that player oversteps the offside line before the lineout has ended.
Sanction: Penalty kick on the offending team’s offside line opposite the place of infringement, at least 15 metres from the touchline.

Reading this, if a 12 or 13 goes offside... wider than the 15m line, you give the mark where that player was offside. However, if the short side winger goes offside (potentially between the 15m line and the goal line), isn't the mark given on the 15 line... as you must be at least 15m from touch?

Browner
21-10-14, 17:10
That sounds like the ELV that did not work. With no numbers rule, defenders tended to put 4 or 5 players in every lineout, and the throwing side had no real opportunity to try tactical variations. It killed the short lineout.

?? Say defenders do indeed put in 5.

If the throwers put in 7, then a catch & maul drive sounds like a good variation. 7+hooker v 5+hooker = 33% Advantage?
If the throwers put in 3, then any OffTheTop ball sounds like a good variation. 10 runners beyond the SH v 8 defenders beyond the SH = 25% Advantage?

Regular variation should still come up trumps tactically , me thinks.

OB..
21-10-14, 22:10
Regular variation should still come up trumps tactically , me thinks.In practice, it didn't.

The point is not about the throwing side having extra players (the opponents can still match them and players cannot leave the lineout), but that they could not usefully call shortened lineouts.

Browner
21-10-14, 23:10
In practice, it didn't.

The point is not about the throwing side having extra players (the opponents can still match them and players cannot leave the lineout), but that they could not usefully call shortened lineouts.

Why not?

Pegleg
22-10-14, 07:10
Tactically inept coaches?

Phil E
22-10-14, 08:10
Sanction: Penalty kick on the offending team’s offside line opposite the place of infringement, at least 15 metres from the touchline.[/LAWS]


Thanks, I stand corrected.

OB..
22-10-14, 13:10
Why not?I thought it was rather obvious that if you put two men in the line and the opponents put in more, they will have defenders closer to your attacking line than having to move them 10m back.

ChrisR
22-10-14, 14:10
Re. the OP. Well executed 2 man LO by Wasps with split second timing. However ....

The two whites who step beyond the goal line are indeed offside with material effect so should have been pinged. I can get the 9 moving up a couple of steps (tho he shouldn't) but the dolt to his right has no reason to be where he is.

Mr. Chris, your observation and analysis are spot on. Thanx for the clip.