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FightOrFlight
10-11-14, 00:11
Reffing a game today. Red v Blue. Blue player tackled 4m in from touch with a primary red tackler and an assist. Primary rolls away as per but red assist is on feet and has a hold of the Blue jersey(no release) and drags him the remaining 4m or so into touch. I PKed red assist for not releasing in the tackle much to their displeasure.

It was all a fairly fluid movement. Tackled player goes down and once he hits the ground he is dragged off into touch.

Thoughts?

talbazar
10-11-14, 00:11
Sounds like a good call to me:
- Correct against the law
- Avoiding potential flashpoint

My 2 cents,
Pierre.

menace
10-11-14, 00:11
Spot on. No issue.
(Just remind them they're not playing rugby league)

Unfortunately I think too many refs miss this one as such players think they can legally do it. Another urban myth in the making.

Dickie E
10-11-14, 01:11
Reffing a game today. Red v Blue. Blue player tackled 4m in from touch with a primary red tackler and an assist. Primary rolls away as per but red assist is on feet and has a hold of the Blue jersey(no release) and drags him the remaining 4m or so into touch. I PKed red assist for not releasing in the tackle much to their displeasure.

It was all a fairly fluid movement. Tackled player goes down and once he hits the ground he is dragged off into touch.

Thoughts?

Agree with your call but let me ask this:

Let's say Red tackle assist DID clearly release Blue player but then re-grasps Blue player and drags him into touch. Decision?

FightOrFlight
10-11-14, 02:11
Agree with your call but let me ask this:

Let's say Red tackle assist DID clearly release Blue player but then re-grasps Blue player and drags him into touch. Decision?

I thought that after the game. Once the tackler(s) releases I'm looking for the ball carrier to release the ball next. If he was to do so it would negate the need to drag him into touch. I may PK the tackled player for not releasing the ball under however in that scenario:

15.5 (a)
A tackled player must not lie on, over, or near the ball to prevent opponents from gaining possession of it, and must try to make the ball available immediately so that play can continue.

(b) A tackled player must immediately pass the ball or release it. That player must also get up or move away from it at once.

Being dragged away would fulfill the moving away part for me and I would tell the player to stop dragging him had he released to avoid hassle and as he now has no reason to do so.

In my scenario I would imagine the primary tackler would be after the ball sharpish however.

menace
10-11-14, 02:11
Agree with your call but let me ask this:

Let's say Red tackle assist DID clearly release Blue player but then re-grasps Blue player and drags him into touch. Decision?

Probably the same as BC was not tackled but went to ground a la law 14? And was then grabbed and dragged into touch.

Dickie E
10-11-14, 02:11
Probably the same as BC was not tackled but went to ground a la law 14? And was then grabbed and dragged into touch.

Could be. So what is your decision? I think play on.

menace
10-11-14, 02:11
I think it's one you need to see and judge on feel (ie how far the drag, how long the time to do something 'immediately'..etc etc). There could be cause for PK against the BC for not letting go of the ball.

But yes , like you, I'm inclined to 'play on'....more for not rewarding the stupidity of the opponent for not playing at the ball in-field (which could have earnt his side cheap turnover or a PK rather than a lowly and risky line out throw in).

Dickie E
10-11-14, 05:11
Stu Berry may disagree with us:

http://www.sareferees.com/ref-replies/duty-ref-484--stuart-berry/2829616/


Question: Law 14 question. In situations where a player either goes to ground to gain possession or is a ball carrier who ends up on the ground when there has not been a tackle, the laws are reasonably clear as to the actions required by both the player with the ball and opposition players who are on their feet and are attempting to play the ball. However, the laws say virtually nothing about players, in opposition to the player in possession, grasping the ball carrier and dragging him into touch. The laws are written in a way that assumes such players are attempting to play the ball but we sometimes see the defender ignore the ball and simply attempt to grasp the player on the ground and drag him into touch. Do you have guidelines, other than the formal Laws of The Game, suggesting how such situations should be refereed? Cheers, Ross

Stuart Berry: Hi Ross – once a player has gone to ground, a defender cannot ‘drag’ that player around the field, whether it be into touch or simply to change his body position. This is a PK offence.

menace
10-11-14, 09:11
But lucky I don't referee in SA!
Pity he couldn't give a law reference to back up his thinking.

7.1 has "Any player may tackle, hold or push an opponent holding the ball.". So you can push them out but not pull them out?
They are not tackled...hence law 14..and therefore you can push them out and by extension you must be able to pull them out?

(I think we've done this one already a few months ago? and I've probably contradicted myself from what I said then?!)

I think Stu Berry answered before actually thinking? :shrug:

Lee Lifeson-Peart
10-11-14, 10:11
Let's wheel out the Gordon Tallis/Brett Hodgson youtube clip! :pepper:

Ian_Cook
10-11-14, 12:11
Let's wheel out the Gordon Tallis/Brett Hodgson youtube clip! :pepper:

If you insist! :horse:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_f5Rr93v_Q

crossref
10-11-14, 12:11
are we saying that was legal ??? surely not

Shelflife
10-11-14, 12:11
If a player is stupid enough to try and drag a player on the ground 4m rather than go for the ball then thats a pen for tackling a player without the ball, assuming that the player on the ground has released and placed the ball then its a pen for playing a man without the ball.

menace
10-11-14, 12:11
It was/is in rugby league world. As it wasn't a 'completed' tackle as the bc, although off his feet, was not stationary ( momentum arrested). That law may changed now though but I'm not sure. (Calling leagueref) :shrug:

crossref
10-11-14, 12:11
It was/is in rugby league world. As it wasn't a 'completed' tackle as the bc, although off his feet, was not stationary ( momentum arrested). That law may changed now though but I'm not sure. (Calling leagueref) :shrug:

ah. didn't realise it was league (blush).
that also explains why I hadn't seen it before!

4eyesbetter
10-11-14, 16:11
It was/is in rugby league world. As it wasn't a 'completed' tackle as the bc, although off his feet, was not stationary ( momentum arrested). That law may changed now though but I'm not sure. (Calling leagueref) :shrug:

In England we now think this is dangerous; you can push but not drag. (The tackle is not complete until the ball-carrying arm hits the ground.) Can't speak for the NRL.