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Taffy
19-11-14, 22:11
Under 13 age group today.

White carrying ball is caught by Gold centre. Gold lifts him up, past the horizontal but delivers him safely to the ground. No driving in to the ground and no dumping. He very clearly (in my view) went all the way down to the ground with him. Shrieks from the sidelines. I play on. Was I right?

didds
19-11-14, 22:11
im not sure whether he lowered him to his feet so the BC was standuing, or he landed BC on his bum/back.

I think IF it was back to his feet then play-on, and at the nex5 down time congratulate the gold player for being sensible and just remind him - as he already knew anyway - that lifting in the tackle is dangerous and maybe he got lucky next time. Then thank him for being sensible again (shit sandwich approach)

If he ended up on his back, given this is U13 as well, I think a PK, and a friendly chat would most definitely be in order.

didds

Didds (currently coaching U12s!)

Rushforth
19-11-14, 22:11
Under 13 age group today.

White carrying ball is caught by Gold centre. Gold lifts him up, past the horizontal but delivers him safely to the ground. No driving in to the ground and no dumping. He very clearly (in my view) went all the way down to the ground with him. Shrieks from the sidelines. I play on. Was I right?

Afraid not, at least according to my most recent info. And even before that, penalty at minimum. Count back from red, if there is no threat to head then yellow is justifiable.

That said, the vast majority of tip tackles 'at my level' involve the momentum of the ball carrier, in much the same way as 'high tackles' take place 3 foot up.

I don't think more than a penalty is necessary in such situations (unless it becomes a genuinely repeated offence), but at U13 I will whistle immediately for any lifting tackle where there is even a hint of feet above head.

viper492
19-11-14, 23:11
delivers him safely to the ground. No driving in to the ground and no dumping. He very clearly (in my view) went all the way down to the ground with him. Shrieks from the sidelines. I play on. Was I right?

Need more context please - in my book, pretty much anything beyond horizontal needs to be welcomed with :yellow:, especially with the current directives on removing such tackles from the game. That said, it's very much a judgement call for yourself with regard to the YC - if it was borderline on horizontal, I'd consider only a penalty in the situation you've (very briefly) outlined (and probably end up giving a YC) but anything more than marginal would be a YC every time. I reffed primarily U13-16 last season and feel that the use of a YC has a much greater effect on curbing the behaviour as the player (and team) suddenly realise that the behaviour is very dangerous, especially at a young age where YC are generally quite rare.


As Didds says, if back to feet, it's ok and a be more careful.

Taffy
19-11-14, 23:11
Need more context please - in my book, pretty much anything beyond horizontal needs to be welcomed with :yellow:, especially with the current directives on removing such tackles from the game. That said, it's very much a judgement call for yourself with regard to the YC - if it was borderline on horizontal, I'd consider only a penalty in the situation you've (very briefly) outlined (and probably end up giving a YC) but anything more than marginal would be a YC every time. I reffed primarily U13-16 last season and feel that the use of a YC has a much greater effect on curbing the behaviour as the player (and team) suddenly realise that the behaviour is very dangerous, especially at a young age where YC are generally quite rare.


As Didds says, if back to feet, it's ok and a be more careful.

No, he delivered him to the ground on his back, so it sounds like I have cocked this one up.

Appreciate the responses

Phil E
20-11-14, 00:11
At U13 I believe you need to educate as well as set the standard they should expect at higher levels.
Plus.....safety is King.

I would look at a PK minimum, even if it's just to educate that you don't lift in a tackle.

FlipFlop
20-11-14, 11:11
Had a great example at the weekend.

Tackler takes ball carrier beyond horizontal, and ultimately the ball carrier is upside down. The Tackler realises what is happening, hold the ball carrier there, and then slowly lowers him to the ground. About as safe as you can get, once the horizontal has been breached. PK only in my book (purely because of the rotation being dangerous).

Sadly - a player from the ball carrier side rushes in to "help" his mate, but is stopped by a player form the tacklers side "protecting" his mate. The two "helpful" players got 10min rest for their help! Idiots. As I said afterwards - if there had been an injury, all they were doing was making it worse, and preventing medical attention arriving quickly.

didds
20-11-14, 12:11
so pretty much exactly like the tip tackle being discussed about the sarries v leicester then?

didds

Browner
30-03-15, 18:03
http://www.rugbyonslaught.com/2015/03/levani-botia-red-carded-for-this.html

Surely "top end" sanction coming ?

Wtf was he thinking, I mean ....its not like he's able to use 'recent convert from RL' as a mitigation .

matty1194
30-03-15, 21:03
http://www.rugbyonslaught.com/2015/03/levani-botia-red-carded-for-this.html

Surely "top end" sanction coming ?

Wtf was he thinking, I mean ....its not like he's able to use 'recent convert from RL' as a mitigation .

Ticks all the boxes for me, straight RC for that my friend, do not pass go, do learn that you cant do that in a game of rugby union!!

What was good for me was the non reaction of the White players, they didnt all steam in on a 99 call, they allowed the referee to deal with it. Good to see.

aussie battler
02-04-15, 03:04
I learned a couple years back that yellow cards work wonders for U12/13s. Had a game 10 high shots from one team (lazy not intent) in first ten minutes all the while trying to talk them out of that behaviour. After team warning next is yellow it happened again in next passage of play...........yellow card issued,,,,, For the next 30 minutes no high tackles. The penny dropped, referee to the directives given and the players will respond.
This weeks game U13 in first 5 minutes lifting tackle above horizontal that was not nasty.......yellow card..... members of non offending team were agast.....result.... no more lifting tackles for rest of game....

Point being they respond to the rules being applied properly.

irishref
02-04-15, 12:04
deep, dark, bloody red for that tackle in the clip. Hopefully a top-end sanction too.

- - - Updated - - -

deep, dark, bloody red for that tackle in the clip. Hopefully a top-end sanction too.

ChrisR
02-04-15, 14:04
Back to the OP ...

Taffy, to me this is one of those "You had to be there ..." but from your description I gather that:

1. Tackler lifted in the tackle and got the BC past horizontal.

2. Realized the situation and lowered the BC to ground.

3. BC landed on back, not head.

Peeeep, PK.

Words to tackler and his captain: "The penalty is for lifting in the tackle and getting the ball carrier past horizontal. I'm not giving you a card only because you made the effort to bring the ball carrier down safely on his back. Do not lift in the tackle. If this happens again your team will be playing a man short".

matty1194
02-04-15, 16:04
I learned a couple years back that yellow cards work wonders for U12/13s. Had a game 10 high shots from one team (lazy not intent) in first ten minutes all the while trying to talk them out of that behaviour. After team warning next is yellow it happened again in next passage of play...........yellow card issued,,,,, For the next 30 minutes no high tackles. Point being they respond to the rules being applied properly.

Wowser!! 10 lazy high shots in 10 minutes, even if no intent thats a very high count!! I would be looking to be having a word at least a lot earlier than you did, not waiting for 7 more to go by then have a word and allow one more before a YC.

As you stated in your post, after that YC there was no more high shots, imagine if you had dealt with it earlier........................

Ian_Cook
02-04-15, 20:04
deep, dark, bloody red for that tackle in the clip. Hopefully a top-end sanction too.

Tip tackles like this deserve season ending suspensions.

FFS!! Its been six years since the spear tackle memorandum, and nearly four years since tip tackles hit the headlines with Sam Warburton's RC at the RWC. What is it that makes Rugby players such slow learners!?

Dixie
02-04-15, 20:04
What is it that makes Rugby players such slow learners!? Trauma to the head

Dixie
02-04-15, 20:04
No, he delivered him to the ground on his back, so it sounds like I have cocked this one up.

Appreciate the responses

I would have done as you did. The tip tackle is an example of dangerous play - and one of the worst examples at that. It is defined as lifting the BC, tilting him beyond the horizontal then failing to bring him safely to ground. The contributors thus far seem to have forgotten that bit. By bringing the BC safely to ground, the tackler has negated any suggestion of dangerous play - it cannot be dangerous to bring a player safely to ground. God help this game if we forget that.