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jeremykay
02-12-14, 18:12
looking for views on whether the ref made the right call. Our team had been awarded a penalty which they elected to kick at goal. The penalty taker started his run and struck the ball which went between the posts and the linesmen indicated the kick was good. Just before the kicker struck the ball, the ref blew and complained that the kickers side had made a sarcastic comment towards the ref, he blew his whistle and reversed the penalty decision and cancelled the score from the successful kick. Is the ref entitled to do this and has he taken the right course of action ?
thanks

thepercy
02-12-14, 18:12
looking for views on whether the ref made the right call. Our team had been awarded a penalty which they elected to kick at goal. The penalty taker started his run and struck the ball which went between the posts and the linesmen indicated the kick was good. Just before the kicker struck the ball, the ref blew and complained that the kickers side had made a sarcastic comment towards the ref, he blew his whistle and reversed the penalty decision and cancelled the score from the successful kick. Is the ref entitled to do this and has he taken the right course of action ?
thanks

Since your team was given the PK and were about to get 3 points, it seems like you should be upset at your player making comments, sarcastic or otherwise, to the referee. 10.4.s

crossref
02-12-14, 18:12
if an abusive comment is made the ref is quite entitled to blow whistle and stop the game immediately, even if a kick is about to be taken.
so technically correct.

was the referee's actions proportionate? I will wager that it wasn't the first sarcastic comment aimed at him that afternoon?

RobLev
02-12-14, 21:12
...I will wager that it wasn't the first sarcastic comment aimed at him that afternoon?

Before or after the incident...

Dixie
03-12-14, 21:12
Welcome to the forum, JeremyKay. During a kick at goal, the game is live and time is on. The referee is therefore required to enforce the laws of the game. One of those is Law 10.4(s), which says:

(s) All players must respect the authority of the referee. They must not dispute the referee’s decisions. ...
Sanction: Penalty kick

This situation is similar to the one in which the ref awards you a kickable scrum penalty, but as the scrummagers unbind your prop lands a punch on his oppo. Your kickable penalty is reversed, and your prop is to blame for your lack of three points. The moral is ... if you want to win games, maintain discipline - and don't piss off the ref, who has turned out for no reward on his day off just to enable people who think he's a tosser to play rugby

ChrisR
03-12-14, 23:12
.... and the moral of this story is if you're going to say something stupid wait 'til the ball goes between the posts and the points are on the board.

Dickie E
04-12-14, 00:12
.... and the moral of this story is if you're going to say something stupid wait 'til the ball goes between the posts and the points are on the board.

But then be ready for a PK restart and 10 mins in cooler

damo
04-12-14, 06:12
I agree with the comments above that the referee was obviously within his rights to do what he did.

However as a referee, I think we sometimes need to be mindful that our actions are proportionate to the incident. Personally it would take a hell of a comment said by a player before I would reverse a PK seconds before a kicker is about to kick the ball. It is unlikely that I would take such a drastic action for a merely sarcastic comment. In my experience an action like this can lead to having less respect from the players, not more.

didds
04-12-14, 13:12
surely though this time difference is a grey area..

award the PK, then immediate absuse, reverse PK...

award the PK, kicker indicates posts, abuse, reverse PK

award the PK, kicker indicates posts, puts ball on tee, abuse, reverse PK

award the PK, kicker indicates posts, puts ball on tee, addresses kick, abuse, reverse PK

award the PK, kicker indicates posts, puts ball on tee, addresses kick, starts run up, abuse, reverse PK

award the PK, kicker indicates posts, puts ball on tee, addresses kick, starts run up, boot meets ball, abuse, reverse PK

award the PK, kicker indicates posts, puts ball on tee, addresses kick, starts run up, boot meets ball, kick in air, abuse, reverse PK

award the PK, kicker indicates posts, puts ball on tee, addresses kick, starts run up, boot meets ball, kick in air, ball through posts, abuse, reverse PK


If you are not going to reverse the PK at some juncture during the kick... at which time is the PK reversable and what time is always going to happen no matter what is said?

didds

crossref
04-12-14, 14:12
didds that was the worst possible message to be double posted :)

ChrisR
04-12-14, 15:12
Stop me if I've posted this one before .....

Adult game, division top spot decider. We are awarded a PK, inside our 22, for opponents foul play. Ball on the mark, SH waiting for referee to finish admonishing opps for foul deed, one of our players loudly grumbling at opps. SH (skipper) turns around to grumbler and says, loudly: "Shut the **** up!"

Peep, penalty reversed for bad language, opps kick PK, we lose by two.

crossref
04-12-14, 15:12
Stop me if I've posted this one before .....

Adult game, division top spot decider. We are awarded a PK, inside our 22, for opponents foul play. Ball on the mark, SH waiting for referee to finish admonishing opps for foul deed, one of our players loudly grumbling at opps. SH (skipper) turns around to grumbler and says, loudly: "Shut the **** up!"

Peep, penalty reversed for bad language, opps kick PK, we lose by two.

ouch!

did the referee, perhaps, imagine that your captain was telling the oppo to shut up?

ChrisR
04-12-14, 20:12
Nope. But he had, in the PMB, warned against bad language. So, he had set out his stall and ....

jeremykay
05-12-14, 12:12
I agree with the comments above that the referee was obviously within his rights to do what he did.

However as a referee, I think we sometimes need to be mindful that our actions are proportionate to the incident. Personally it would take a hell of a comment said by a player before I would reverse a PK seconds before a kicker is about to kick the ball. It is unlikely that I would take such a drastic action for a merely sarcastic comment. In my experience an action like this can lead to having less respect from the players, not more.



Thank you for all the views, I think the view on proportionality is key - the comment made by one of the team was 'yes sir', which the ref interpreted as a sarcastic remark !

crossref
05-12-14, 12:12
Thank you for all the views, I think the view on proportionality is key - the comment made by one of the team was 'yes sir', which the ref interpreted as a sarcastic remark !

something tells me there is more to this story than you have shared!