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View Full Version : Foul Play has a happy ending



Blindpugh
03-12-14, 19:12
Thought I would post this under Golden Oldies because most of my local club's (New Milton) 3rd team are over 40.

I work with Ed's mother in law and was disappointed to hear that he had been booted in the head and broken his nose (again!). :wtf::norc:

Was watching BBC South Today and pleased to see that act of foul play had a happy ending!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2858883/Rugby-player-unable-smell-20-years-sniffs-gas-leak-days-kick-head-restored-lost-sense.html

Video - I thought that referee managed situation very well with red for tip tackle. I understand that club banned player for kicking Ed.

Pegleg
04-12-14, 08:12
Who was the large guy in white joining the pitch? What's he doing there?

Phil E
04-12-14, 08:12
Video - I thought that referee managed situation very well with red for tip tackle.

I don't.

Got too close to the action, trying to break things up. Ended up with things happening behind his back because he was too close.

Didn't appear to separate the teams, or give himself time. All seemed a bit hurried and disorganised to me.

Did he take the players name before dismissing him???

crossref
04-12-14, 09:12
Who was the large guy in white joining the pitch? What's he doing there?

it was the TMO..

Pegleg
04-12-14, 09:12
Agreed Phil. Far too close. Did he even see the person who can onto the pitch?

Blindpugh
04-12-14, 11:12
I don't.

Got too close to the action, trying to break things up. Ended up with things happening behind his back because he was too close.

Didn't appear to separate the teams, or give himself time. All seemed a bit hurried and disorganised to me.

Did he take the players name before dismissing him???


I don't.

Got too close to the action, trying to break things up. Ended up with things happening behind his back because he was too close.

Didn't appear to separate the teams, or give himself time. All seemed a bit hurried and disorganised to me.

Did he take the players name before dismissing him???

Phil, I agree with all your comments that referee got too close and should of blown his whistle stood back and watched the players running in and then dealt with the offenders after seperating the teams and gathering his thoughts. This is the technique I was shown and used from L9 - L6 and will use when I start coaching referees in the New Year.

Fyi, this was a Dorset & Wilts Div 3 game so probably L11/12? I have seen many new referees simply bottle it at this level and it was from this persepctive I said well done.

Main reason for posting this thread was to show that several positive things came out of this act of foul play namely player regained his sense of smell after 27 years and this helped avert a gas explosion outside a school/ nursery and in a built up area!!!

Adam
04-12-14, 11:12
In a league game I don't take a player's name any more. It is on the match card. Much more effective I find to get the offending player off the pitch and just clarify the player's surname with the captain when giving him the explanation.

It is the club's problem if it is the wrong player on the match card. The disciplinary committee will get the correct player sanctioned anyway.

Phil E
04-12-14, 12:12
Fyi, this was a Dorset & Wilts Div 3 game so probably L11/12? I have seen many new referees simply bottle it at this level and it was from this persepctive I said well done.


In that context agreed.


In a league game I don't take a player's name any more. It is on the match card. Much more effective I find to get the offending player off the pitch and just clarify the player's surname with the captain when giving him the explanation.

It is the club's problem if it is the wrong player on the match card. The disciplinary committee will get the correct player sanctioned anyway.

But you cannot guarantee that the shirt number he is wearing matches the shirt number on the card, especially if he is a sub. You don't want to risk the player getting off on a technicality because you got the wrong name or wrong number. This has happened in Warwickshire where a ref took the name off the card, it was the wrong name, made his report look stupid.............got thrown out as they couldn't identify the guilty player.

I always ask for his name, and then get the Captain to confirm it, and then finally check it against the card.
Oh, and you need his first name as well, quite common for brothers to be playing together.

Andrew1974
04-12-14, 12:12
I'm sure different areas have different protocols but in the North West we have been told NOT to get the players name, just get him off the pitch. Name is sought after the game from the captain etc.

Firmly puts the monkey on the clubs back to ensure that the player sent off was correctly identified.

Phil E
04-12-14, 12:12
I'm sure different areas have different protocols but in the North West we have been told NOT to get the players name, just get him off the pitch. Name is sought after the game from the captain etc.

Firmly puts the monkey on the clubs back to ensure that the player sent off was correctly identified.

Interesting :chin:

This is from the Warwickshire website:

Discipline – Sending Off Procedure

At the time of the incident.
Make a note of the player’s full name and the position he/she is playing – ask him & write it on your score-sheet. Confirm it with his captain. Note the time during the game + the score What was the dismissal for? – Make a note! + What led up to it- ruck/maul/scrum etc. Note your position in relation to the incident: i.e. 3 metres away, unobstructed view. Show the player the red card!!! Did the player offer an apology to you after the game, if so make a note and mention it in your report.

After the match.
Do not discuss the dismissal in the bar with anyone. Go back home, collect your thoughts and inform the Discipline Secretary within 24 hours. Complete the front of the form – answer the questions. On the rear – fill in the match conditions. Now – the blank bit! Where on the pitch did it happen? Who was the attacking team? What actually happened? Was your view clear or obstructed, were any injuries caused to any player? Did he receive treatment on/off the pitch? Did you show the player a red card? Any other relevant information – did the player apologise to you after the game in the clubhouse? Remember to be clear and decisive – believe in what you saw – that’s why you sent the player off! Do not make your views on the incident known, you are there to simply enforce the laws not pass comment on their effect.

crossref
04-12-14, 12:12
I understand the idea of getting the player off the pitch, plus if there is a red mist he might refuse to tell you his name, and you don't want more confrontation than necessary

But having got him off the pitch, why wouldn't you ask the captain for the name there and then? You are going to need a short period of time off anyway, to note down the time and number, costs nothing to ask capt for the name,

Simon Thomas
04-12-14, 12:12
In a league game I don't take a player's name any more. It is on the match card. Much more effective I find to get the offending player off the pitch and just clarify the player's surname with the captain when giving him the explanation.

It is the club's problem if it is the wrong player on the match card. The disciplinary committee will get the correct player sanctioned anyway.

Not the advice I would give any referee at 5 or below, both now as a Match Observer and Society Committee member or during my seven years as Chairman directly handling Dismissals with my Committee colleagues. Never just rely on the CB Disciplinary Committee to get the right guy, and higher up it often may be another CB not yours.

Take you time, confirm number and name there & then on the pitch, and write it down with time-offence-etc.
Avoids any mistaken identity issues.

Plus double check against match card before you add result / # tries and sign and hand it over.
We had a L9 club dismissal a few seasons ago, dismissed #n gives his name and on match card #n is a different name - RFU League Secretary checks and the dismissed player is not registered. Oooooops and -15 League points.

- - - Updated - - -


I understand the idea of getting the player off the pitch, plus if there is a red mist he might refuse to tell you his name, and you don't want more confrontation than necessary

But having got him off the pitch, why wouldn't you ask the captain for the name there and then? You are going to need a short period of time off anyway, to note down the time and number, costs nothing to ask capt for the name,

I think crossref and I are aligned on something ............................must be Xmas :biggrin:

TheBFG
04-12-14, 13:12
I do a mixture of what people have said. No name at the time, but plenty of other information, I don't want a confrontation with the player on the pitch, so the quicker they're off the better, then after the game, check the name on the card and ask the captain/blazer if it's right. By this time everyone has had the chance to calm down.

when I get home I might even check it against the website if I think there might be an issue.

Pegleg
04-12-14, 15:12
Ask the player's name. If he refuses, note the refusal. Get him off. Ask the captain for the player's name. Confirm later with a club official. Any refual to supply names should be included in your report. I have been known to take a sly photo in the clubhouse to confirm id later.

Always confirm the name even when given by the player. The have been known to lie. Any body who refuses to supply the requested details add them to your report and code of conduct them too.

Adam
04-12-14, 15:12
In that context agreed.



But you cannot guarantee that the shirt number he is wearing matches the shirt number on the card, especially if he is a sub. You don't want to risk the player getting off on a technicality because you got the wrong name or wrong number. This has happened in Warwickshire where a ref took the name off the card, it was the wrong name, made his report look stupid.............got thrown out as they couldn't identify the guilty player.

I always ask for his name, and then get the Captain to confirm it, and then finally check it against the card.
Oh, and you need his first name as well, quite common for brothers to be playing together.


I'm sure different areas have different protocols but in the North West we have been told NOT to get the players name, just get him off the pitch. Name is sought after the game from the captain etc.

Firmly puts the monkey on the clubs back to ensure that the player sent off was correctly identified.

This is what happens in Yorkshire as well. It is the club's responsibility.

Simon Thomas
04-12-14, 16:12
I agree with all the above if you have a potential confrontation with a player, don't press him for his name and get him of pdq but do ask the skipper.

This was a L12 match and a relatively in-experienced post ELRA referee, so he is not at Andy and BFG level of match and player organisation.

In fact it was his first ever Red Card.

I think he did well at this level and with his experience, has learnt a hell of a lot should he ever need to give a red card again and will be a better referee for the experience.

Btw - well done to done to Poole for disciplining the nose kicker internally - no citing was made by New Milton.

Simon Thomas
04-12-14, 16:12
On a lighter note, a Farnborough RFC player 1st XV thru to Vets wing for many years was known as Erroll (splitting image of Mr Hot Chocolate and not a bad singer either - Jersey Vets 10s weekend karaoke king).

He was dismissed in his Vets career and the form was submitted by the Hampshire referee with name Erroll - he had asked at the club and no one knew his real name. Erroll himself had gone as he was so embarrassed about being sent off - he is one of the nicest people, you could wish to meet.

Even the Hampshire Discipline secretary had it down as Erroll and he pleaded guilty by post and it was recorded as such on the CB Governance sheet that came around for approval at the next CB meeting.

SimonSmith
04-12-14, 17:12
Ask the player's name.

New Milton. They all have the same surname don't they down there?

Simon Thomas
04-12-14, 17:12
........I have been known to take a sly photo in the clubhouse to confirm id later........


awesome .........love it !

The umpire
04-12-14, 18:12
Btw - well done to done to Poole for disciplining the nose kicker internally - no citing was made by New Milton.

I hope they're better behaved this weekend...

Browner
04-12-14, 20:12
I hope they're better behaved this weekend...

Vets ...... Their ability to all pile in and some dirty git deliver the cheap shot face kick remains timeless ..........

Blindpugh
04-12-14, 20:12
New Milton. They all have the same surname don't they down there?

Yes Simon,

Jones, Evans, Davies, Thomas.

As over 35% of club are Welsh I proposed at AGM a few years ago to re-name the club New Milton Welsh :biggrin::wales:

crossref
05-12-14, 00:12
I have been to new Milton took a team of u13 (I think it was, give or take) some years ago, on tour.
They entertained us royally. :-)

Browner
05-12-14, 12:12
Yes Simon,

Jones, Evans, Davies, Thomas.

As over 35% of club are Welsh I proposed at AGM a few years ago to re-name the club New Milton Welsh :biggrin::wales:

Hopefully the 65% defeated the proposal, and countered with a proposal that you be reclassified as English on residency qualification criteria ! :eng: