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wolfie
28-12-14, 20:12
My game 2 weeks ago.

Black 2nd team vs Blue 3rd team, fairly scrappy etc.

Blue bundle towards the line and as he crosses is tackled by a couple of black players. Blue ends up on his back ball on chest in in-goal, legs in field of play. The split second blue lands on his back the ball is ripped from him by black and with few options touched down.

Blue try to tell me it was held up so should be 5 mt scrum attacking. I disagree as although he didn't place the ball down I believe held up should at least be over a period of a couple of seconds. In this case the ball was immediately ripped.

So carried over by blue, made dead by a black touchdown - 22 drop.

Thoughts?

and have a happy new year.

chbg
28-12-14, 20:12
Correct as described, IMO. I would use 'held up' when there is an unresolved struggle for the ball in in-goal, not when it is resolved without delay.

Blue inviting a Black P for dissent (YC at higher levels).

Simon Thomas
28-12-14, 20:12
Correct decision as described with the split second change of possession, so not held up and ball still in contest.

Taff
28-12-14, 22:12
So how would Blue explain the ball being touched down, if it was held up?

Browner
29-12-14, 11:12
Elsewhere on the pitch the tackler would be expected to release the blue player he brought to ground rather than a continued contest for the ball ( if the picture I'm seeing is correct). , but once over the Goal Line its reasonable to expect Blacks ' try prevention' targetting of the ball.

Good decision, although if I'd been blue, I would've quickly suggested a 5m scrum ..... as a 'hope'

Rest your mind Wolfie.

ChrisR
29-12-14, 11:12
From chbg: Correct as described, IMO. I would use 'held up' when there is an unresolved struggle for the ball in in-goal, not when it is resolved without delay.

And this is the crux, not the time.

Dixie
29-12-14, 11:12
Elsewhere on the pitch the tackler would be expected to release the blue player he brought to ground rather than a continued contest for the ball ( if the picture I'm seeing is correct), but once over the Goal Line its reasonable to expect Blacks ' try prevention' targetting of the ball. It's more than reasonable, because once over the goal line there can be no tackle, and thus no requirement for either the "tackler" or the "tackled player" to release anything at all.

Law 15.1 WHERE CAN A TACKLE TAKE PLACE
A tackle can only take place in the field of play.

As we all know, the "field of play" constitutes the playing area less the in-goal areas.

Browner
29-12-14, 12:12
It's more than reasonable, because once over the goal line there can be no tackle, and thus no requirement for either the "tackler" or the "tackled player" to release anything at all.

.

Of course I agree once "Over" , But the OP describes
legs in field of play and
as he crosses which is presumed to me to mean he isn't yet "over" as he's tackled.

I was picturing a momentum landing where the tackler won't be expected to release the ball or BC then either, seems like you weren't. Fair enough.

Dave Sherwin
29-12-14, 15:12
Out of interest, could anyone set a timeframe on how long a struggle can go on for before it is deemed unresolved? For me, this is one area that is pretty subjective as often, after say four seconds, the ball might find its way to ground after everyone wrestles for it, but I suspect I would still call held up. I'm not really looking for a definitive timeframe (as if any of us count to 4 or 5 or whatever in those circumstances), but just wanted to check that others would agree that this tends to be a little subjective.

ChrisR
29-12-14, 16:12
I think of 'held up' as being a condition, not time.

Pegleg
29-12-14, 16:12
Out of interest, could anyone set a timeframe on how long a struggle can go on for before it is deemed unresolved? For me, this is one area that is pretty subjective as often, after say four seconds, the ball might find its way to ground after everyone wrestles for it, but I suspect I would still call held up. I'm not really looking for a definitive timeframe (as if any of us count to 4 or 5 or whatever in those circumstances), but just wanted to check that others would agree that this tends to be a little subjective.

http://eventknowhow.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/string.jpgHow long is it?

- - - Updated - - -

Judgement call.

Dave Sherwin
29-12-14, 16:12
[QUOTE=Pegleg;290247]http://eventknowhow.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/string.jpgHow long is it?
Yup - my thought entirely!

tim White
29-12-14, 17:12
No more than a couple of seconds -as long as takes to say "If you can put it down whilst being grappled by an opponent, do so -otherwise that is held up". The 'tackler' is entitled to his reward for preventing the grounding of the ball.

wolfie
29-12-14, 19:12
Thanks for the replies.

To clear something up their was no dissent just a question asked and my decision excepted. I had addressed the dissent issue earlier in the game before it got out of hand and had no more problems.


With regard "held up" I find it normally very quickly turns into a scrabble on the floor and the game ends up not being played on the feet so time to call held up.