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Taffy
05-01-15, 00:01
Probably showing my na´vetÚ but after the match today with quite a few team discipline issues, spoke to a couple of the miscreants in the bar afterwards and they told me that "yeah, our skipper Donald is a nice bloke, but he is a history teacher in a private school and didn't communicate anything of your dissatisfaction back to us". He's no good as a captain really!

And there was me thinking it was all being passed on.........

Rather threw me.

Yet another thing to remember!

Anyone had this before?

Taff
05-01-15, 01:01
.... And there was me thinking it was all being passed on.........
Really?

What percentage of messages do you reckon get passed on exactly as requested? I'd be amazed if it was more that 20%.

Dickie E
05-01-15, 01:01
"yeah, our skipper Donald is a nice bloke, but he is a history teacher in a private school and didn't communicate anything of your dissatisfaction back to us".


So when you called Donald over for several chats did his team think you were discussing some of the finer detail of the French Revolution? :holysheep:

Taffy
05-01-15, 02:01
So when you called Donald over for several chats did his team think you were discussing some of the finer detail of the French Revolution? :holysheep:

search me, but it has taught me a lesson...............and no, not a history one before anyone asks.........I imagine he regularly gets torn apart by student miscreants who probably debag him on a regular basis........

Dave Sherwin
05-01-15, 03:01
If I ask the captain to have a word, I will always make sure it happens, and will say, "skipper, have that word please" if it doesn't look like happening. Further, if I have asked him to speak to a particular player (say a 12 who is perpetually testing the offside line), I'll use the next downtime to say to the 12, "all ok with what [insert captains name] mentioned just now?" Gives you the opportunity during downtime to just further reinforce the message.

Phil E
05-01-15, 09:01
Some Captains need managing more than the players.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink!

Learn to recognise early on what sort of horse you have?

Simon Thomas
05-01-15, 10:01
If skipper is not helping , why not speak directly to the miscreants yourself at downtime, or when escalating formally with a "time off, number 7 I have already warned you about your bind at the scrum, this is a final warning to stay bound".

When getting close to card territory have the skipper present as well.

TheBFG
05-01-15, 10:01
Yep! Regularly. I will always go "through the capt" to pass messages on, BUT I also make a point of watching if he actually does it, if they do (which is rare) great, but if they don't that's not my problem. This happens in the game and also in the PMB.
When talking to the SH at the PMB I ALWAYS confirm what is out at a ruck and make a point of telling the capt (who is involved in the PMB), that he needs to pass that on to his players. I bet 75-85% of matches that is never passed on!

Lee Lifeson-Peart
05-01-15, 11:01
Taffy

Your issue with Captians at your level is one hell of an incentive to get promoted. When you progress you will find (particularly for League Teams) that the Captin is not in post because he can do at least one of the following:-

Knows where all the grounds are so can lead the convoy.
Will wash/organise washing the kit.
Can collect ú3 off everyone before they feign poverty/scarper.

Until you get promoted you will have to play the hand you're dealt in terms of the Captains. Use Adam's tools for putting the onus on them to sort their team. Some will respond but most won't. Keep at it. It gets easier - honest.

Some good tips further up too.

At the toss (do it 1/2 hour before kick off - NOT just before you kick off - again I appreciate some lower teams will piss about getting out/warming up/going in/turning up late/getting lost etc etc) speak to both Captians and tell them that you will expect them to sort out any issues with their teams whether that is discipline with a small or a big D. Then you can use the phrase "we spoke about this earlier" safe in the knowledge you have done your bit pre-match.

The worst Captian I ever had was a surly youth skipperng the 2nd XV of a L4 club who on the back of a thrashing at home was getting the tit on with me. I spoke to him about repeated infringements and asked him to have a word with his team. After refusing to look at me in a "Kevin the Teeenager" stylee whilst I spoke to him he waked off back to his team and bellowed WORD at the top of his voice.

Needless to say after 2 quick YCs against his team he tried coming back to speak to me and I spoke to him in a "Steve Walsh the Referee" stylee (see his fine man management of Stephen Hoiles of the ACT Brumbies from a few years ago :biggrin:) and effectively shut off the communication channel with him - not a proud moment but I'd driven 100 mile round trip to deal with that w@nker. I blew up a few minutes early with the agreement of the winning Captain because at least 16 of us were fed up with knob head. Spoke to blazers afterwards and they informed me he was Captain because he'd Captained of the U16s once.

FlipFlop
05-01-15, 11:01
Personally I don't care if the Captain passes the messages on or not. I used to care, and got annoyed if they didn't. Now however, I don't care.

Why not - well, I warn the captain, I pass my message to him. Then when I need to card a player, I say to the Captain - we spoke about this just now, you haven't managed your players, so I am. Of course - If I am warning a specific player - they are often there as well at the initial warning...

Yes I have players afterwards who don't know they were going to be carded, but they are aware that it was their Captain who hadn't passed on a message. And they are generally happy that I told their Captain to pass on messages - not annoyed with me (they might still say they didn't do the crime, but they don't object to the card for the crime).

I expect captains to manage the players, and if they can't - I don't think it is my role to do their job. I'm not going to micromanage all the players. If the captains can't - well, the team will pay the price, and perhaps next time they will select a better on field captain.

Dazzasmiff
08-01-15, 17:01
If you feel during the game at this level that your message is not getting through ask for the vice captain, tell him you will only speak to him from now on, if this fails then you have your whistle and pocket to deal with it, once the penalty count goes up and a few Y/C are used, in my opinion this will sot your problems out.

Browner
08-01-15, 18:01
The worst Captian I ever had was a surly youth skipperng the 2nd XV of a L4 club who on the back of a thrashing at home was getting the tit on with me. I spoke to him about repeated infringements and asked him to have a word with his team. After refusing to look at me in a "Kevin the Teeenager" stylee whilst I spoke to him he waked off back to his team and bellowed WORD at the top of his voice.

Needless to say after 2 quick YCs against his team he tried coming back to speak to me and I spoke to him in a "Steve Walsh the Referee" stylee (see his fine man management of Stephen Hoiles of the ACT Brumbies from a few years ago :biggrin:) and effectively shut off the communication channel with him - not a proud moment but I'd driven 100 mile round trip to deal with that

For those unfamiliar with ....
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IhbOVco4eYw

PS... Brought to ground is sufficient mr commentator, held on the ground isn't required!

Taffy
08-01-15, 18:01
Extra posts recently really helpful. Thanks chaps.

OB..
08-01-15, 21:01
PS... Brought to ground is sufficient mr commentator, held on the ground isn't required!The player has to be held when he hits the ground, but not longer - otherwise a tap tackle would be a real tackle.

andyscott
09-01-15, 08:01
If the capt hasnt passed on the message not your problem.

Next offence PEEP, I have already spoke to your skipper YC off you go.

Bet your bottom dollar, once he is in the bin next to the coach. Things will change.

Lee Lifeson-Peart
09-01-15, 09:01
If the capt hasnt passed on the message not your problem.

Next offence PEEP, I have already spoke to your skipper YC off you go.

Bet your bottom dollar, once he is in the bin next to the coach. Things will change.

I agree in terms of the lead up to the YC.

From Taffy's point of view that is half the problem - the Captian will almost certainly be useless and the YC recipient will be stood on his own, having a smoke and/or talking to his daft mates and/or the Touch Judge - there will probably be no coach to administer a bollocking/advice.

What I find helps is when the YC returns is a quick word about repeating/any daftness will be RC and (in these days of automatic bans) a loss of game time because you don't listen - I find it works - never had a YC+YC=RC. Again I apprecaite higher the level this becomes less (un)necessary.

It gets better further up the levels and obviously at the rarified atmosphere of Level 5 (biggrin:) captains are generally there based on their abilities not least of which is getting their team to be as disciplined as possible.