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Taffy
18-01-15, 20:01
This from yesterday. Grass roots game.

We had played 5 minutes of the first half when the Blue scrum half shows me the ball and says "It's the wrong size sir" And indeed we appear to have been playing with a junior, creme egg sized ball. Of course I blew for time off, there was lots of grass roots fannying around and fussing and eventually a proper size rugby ball was produced. We just started again with a scrum as we were at one when it was noticed. But whose responsibility was it, I suspect probably mine! Doh..............

Simon Thomas
18-01-15, 21:01
This from yesterday. Grass roots game.

We had played 5 minutes of the first half when the Blue scrum half shows me the ball and says "It's the wrong size sir" And indeed we appear to have been playing with a junior, creme egg sized ball. Of course I blew for time off, there was lots of grass roots fannying around and fussing and eventually a proper size rugby ball was produced. We just started again with a scrum as we were at one when it was noticed. But whose responsibility was it, I suspect probably mine! Doh..............

Home Club's responsibility to provide one, or more, balls of the correct size for the match, and inflated to correct pressure.

Your responsibility to make sure it is correct size and inflation. Ideally ask for match ball a minimum of 30 minutes before kick off, but don't leave it in the changing room - from personal experience you only do that once :sad:

Phil E
18-01-15, 21:01
Ideally ask for match ball a minimum of 30 minutes before kick off, but don't leave it in the changing room - from personal experience you only do that once :sad:

Been there, done that.......and they had locked the changing room :frown:

Taffy
18-01-15, 22:01
The list of our responsibilities is never ending..........

Simon Thomas
18-01-15, 22:01
The list of our responsibilities is never ending..........

It is pretty well defined and lots is plain common sense.

This pre-kick off management list is used for our in-experienced referees :

Have club location and phone numbers with you when you travel
Meet the captains as soon as convenient, even if it’s before you change. Let club know you have arrived.
Check with skippers that all their players have arrived, and if necessary comp regs.
Agree timings for the kick off, briefings, stud check etc - and do them as arranged.
Check shirt colours and that your kit will not clash
Confirm whether the teams will be returning to the dressing room or not
Insist on TJs, and ask what will happen if a replacement, who is running the line, is put on
Perform the toss while you have the skippers with you, not just before kick off in the middle of the pitch
Check which pitch your match is on and then cHeck pitch markings, flags, padding, etc
Check pitch is roped off if required by competition regulations
Identify any medical personnel and instruct re coming onto pitch for head injuries especially
Ensure stretcher, blankets and hospital number are available with easy access
Even if only one side goes back in, you should be there yourself to usher them out
Give them a 5’ warning and then knock to get them out to the pitch with either 2’ or 3’ to KO (depending on the distance to run). There is no excuse for a late KO !

Taffy
18-01-15, 22:01
It is pretty well defined and lots is plain common sense.

This pre-kick off management list is used for our in-experienced referees :

Have club location and phone numbers with you when you travel
Meet the captains as soon as convenient, even if it’s before you change. Let club know you have arrived.
Check with skippers that all their players have arrived, and if necessary comp regs.
Agree timings for the kick off, briefings, stud check etc - and do them as arranged.
Check shirt colours and that your kit will not clash
Confirm whether the teams will be returning to the dressing room or not
Insist on TJs, and ask what will happen if a replacement, who is running the line, is put on
Perform the toss while you have the skippers with you, not just before kick off in the middle of the pitch
Check which pitch your match is on and then cHeck pitch markings, flags, padding, etc
Check pitch is roped off if required by competition regulations
Identify any medical personnel and instruct re coming onto pitch for head injuries especially
Ensure stretcher, blankets and hospital number are available with easy access
Even if only one side goes back in, you should be there yourself to usher them out
Give them a 5’ warning and then knock to get them out to the pitch with either 2’ or 3’ to KO (depending on the distance to run). There is no excuse for a late KO !

Remember Simon, we are at grass roots here.............I arrive an hour before hand, but might struggle on finding the stretcher............. :biggrin:

I remember a match at Salcombe last year where the touch judge had disappeared just as the ball went into touch. I made the mark and just as we are about to throw the ball in, the touch judge comes running from the dressing room with the immortal comment "Sorry Sir, I had to put the tea urn on". Captain just looked at me and the touch judge whilst holding his flag out whispered in a conspiratorol tone to me "Takes 45 minutes to get hot Sir". You truly could not make it up.

Taffy
18-01-15, 22:01
and then there was the club touch judge who ran touch in a mobility scooter............

- - - Updated - - -

and the club groundsman who suggested putting a traffic cone over a large rabbit hole in the 22...............

Lee Lifeson-Peart
18-01-15, 22:01
I bet for 5 minutes some of them thought they were Sonny Bill Williams with their mesmeric one handed off loads. :biggrin:

That is a new one on me.

When I saw the name of the post I envisaged a song to Tune of Colonel Bogey.

Simon Thomas
18-01-15, 23:01
Remember Simon, we are at grass roots here.............I arrive an hour before hand, but might struggle on finding the stretcher.............

I remember a match at Salcombe last year where the touch judge had disappeared just as the ball went into touch. I made the mark and just as we are about to throw the ball in, the touch judge comes running from the dressing room with the immortal comment "Sorry Sir, I had to put the tea urn on". Captain just looked at me and the touch judge whilst holding his flag out whispered in a conspiratorol tone to me "Takes 45 minutes to get hot Sir". You truly could not make it up.

Totally agree and I know this is grassroots you cover - I am responsible for Society Assessment & Development at ALL levels. I have reffed at L12 myself with 11 players on one side, 13 on the other (they wouldn't lend one to even it up), skipper off to changing rooms at half time to turn on boiler for showers hot water, etc. But they had a stretcher in the clubhouse kit room.

However that is no excuse for making sure the basics are done. You do have duty of care and so must ensure the medical stuff is sorted - nice and gently, casually, not in an offciocious manner - if not provided tell the Society and they will raise it diplomatically with the club.

One day it may matter - over my 15 years in the Society Committee we have had life threatening injuries, ambulances unable to access pitches as gates are padlocked, no stretcher / head brace / medical kit / trained first aider, a life saved as the referee knew there was a defied in the next door sports centre, and numerous concussion incidents where the referee was part of getting a player off, and supportdbthenargument to go to hospital to be checked ( well before Headcase an initiative I strongly support).

You might be pleasantly surprised at even the most grassroots clubs, if you ask the questions.

Simon Thomas
18-01-15, 23:01
Taffy - we will all have similar stories, but it is our role to set the standards.

I went to do a L10 league match many years ago and on arrival no one could get into the changing rooms / clubhouse (council owned)
The rent cheque to the council had not arrived, and the groundsman has been told to keep the doors locked.
We are talking about a concrete block, built in 1950s and pretty basic.
So players and I changed in our cars and got on with it. While the match was on a blazer arranged for us to go to a nearby rival club post match who let us use spare changing rooms, showers and their bar. He fetched portions of fish and chips for us all.

Browner
19-01-15, 03:01
You do have duty of care and so must ensure the medical stuff is sorted - nice and gently, casually, not in an offciocious manner - if not provided tell the Society and they will raise it diplomatically with the club.

One day it may matter - over my 15 years in the Society Committee we have had life threatening injuries, ambulances unable to access pitches as gates are padlocked, no stretcher / head brace / medical kit / trained first aider, a life saved as the referee knew there was a defied in the next door sports centre, and numerous concussion incidents where the referee was part of getting a player off, and supportdbthenargument to go to hospital to be checked ( well before Headcase an initiative I strongly support).

You might be pleasantly surprised at even the most grassroots clubs, if you ask the questions.

Simon,
IMO "Duty" of Care is owned by

- the Host clubs provision
- either clubs officials/directors/or ..capt

It's their role to organise all of the things you mention, not sidestep ignore or abdicate it to a volunteer who is facilitating/refereeing their fixture.

IF a referee had the absolute 'off pitch' DoC you describe, then surely he must cancelled the fixture rather than proceed to let it happen without any one of that list ( or other unlisted matters, such as pitch security marshalling) in place.

Its a ' nice to see' rather than a 'Duty' of a referee, unless you can show me case law that makes officials responsible for such matters in the uk?
If you can, then I will hang up my whistle forever.

Dickie E
19-01-15, 05:01
creme egg sized ball.

Crikey. Thought you might have noticed at kick off :wtf:

3153

OB..
19-01-15, 11:01
I arrive an hour before hand, but might struggle on finding the stretcher............. :biggrin:

Some time ago we were told to get rid of our stretcher because apparently damage was caused by trying to move a player when you shouldn't. (Maybe times have changed. I think that was when we only had a First Aider, not a physio.)

Lee Lifeson-Peart
19-01-15, 11:01
A couple of weeks ago a club told me their serious head/neck injury protocol was to immobilise and wait for the ambulance. I wasn't so crass as to ask if we would move to another pitch I just said fine.

SimonSmith
19-01-15, 14:01
Simon,
IMO "Duty" of Care is owned by

- the Host clubs provision
- either clubs officials/directors/or ..capt

It's their role to organise all of the things you mention, not sidestep ignore or abdicate it to a volunteer who is facilitating/refereeing their fixture.

IF a referee had the absolute 'off pitch' DoC you describe, then surely he must cancelled the fixture rather than proceed to let it happen without any one of that list ( or other unlisted matters, such as pitch security marshalling) in place.

Its a ' nice to see' rather than a 'Duty' of a referee, unless you can show me case law that makes officials responsible for such matters in the uk?
If you can, then I will hang up my whistle forever.

in Virginia, referees can, and should, walk away if there are no medical staff at the pitch side. This is an express requirement for College matches.

crossref
19-01-15, 14:01
Some time ago we were told to get rid of our stretcher because apparently damage was caused by trying to move a player when you shouldn't. (Maybe times have changed. I think that was when we only had a First Aider, not a physio.)

yes, my understanding is that stretchers are now frowned upon. My club got rid of ours on the same advice.
- hence you see players immobilised on the pitch : which means lying freezing cold in a puddle for an hour or more.
- or being chairlifted off the field by team mates.


Really not sure whether that is a net improvement in safety or not...

ChrisR
19-01-15, 17:01
Regards wrong sized ball. If both teams wished to (or agreed to) continue with the smaller ball what would your response be?

- - - Updated - - -

Regards wrong sized ball. If both teams wished to (or agreed to) continue with the smaller ball what would your response be?

Phil E
19-01-15, 17:01
Regards wrong sized ball. If both teams wished to (or agreed to) continue with the smaller ball what would your response be?


You are not 12 year olds.......find a correct size ball!!