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Daftmedic
07-02-15, 23:02
Penalty against R 17 for high tackle. I've got the number and St I have the advantage. They go 25 meters up the pitch I shout advantage over. Then their winger gets shot by a sniper falls over and the balls spills forward. I peep then peep peep time off.
Call R 17 and skipper to me. I issue yellow to 17 for the tackle but the restart is to R after knock on.
Myself and the assessor were not sure if this is correct or did I sell my bullshit well?

Pegleg
07-02-15, 23:02
Correct for me. You played advantage and deemed it over (I'll assume that calling it over was "correct". You are the judge etc). At the next stoppage you deal with the offender and restart according to the stoppage.

OB..
08-02-15, 00:02
Well done.

Accylad
08-02-15, 08:02
Definitely correct. Clear thinking.

Waspsfan
08-02-15, 08:02
What if the chap you were planning on binning had intercepted the ball and run the length of the pitch to score? (After you had called advantage over)

Would you award the try and then bin him? Is that credible?
Would he now avoid a binning? Is that fair?

Also consider a possible backlash to this flashpoint incident occurring whilst you are looking for an advantage. There are definite benefits to blowing immediately when you see a high tackle worthy of a yellow card.

Daftmedic
08-02-15, 09:02
^^^^ This ^^^^.
I did thankfully get away with it. The victim saw I had seen and everyone knew it was Penalty advantage. But I see what your saying.

Pegleg
08-02-15, 13:02
Whether or not you play advantage after foul play depends on a lot of things, "temperature" of the game being the obvious one. but it is there to keep the game flowing.

Compare the OP scenario with this:

A player is offside ref signals advantage (all happy so far?).

The side gains an advantage and you call "advantage over" (Still happy?).

Interception now occurs - Advantage is over bad luck. Play moves on. At the next stoppage we card the offender for repeated intentional offending (still happy or not?).

If the original offender of his team score after an advantage is gained and "blown". What is the difference? So by logic, does the nature of the offence change it? I'd say no (with the caveat that if a flare up was likely then I'll keep advantage very short.)

Pegleg
08-02-15, 13:02
Would you award the try and then bin him? Is that credible?


Yes.

Award the try because it was legal.
Bin for the offence because it is the right thing to do.



Would he now avoid a binning? Is that fair?


No, he gets the card.

chbg
08-02-15, 19:02
I would consider that a better quality of advantage would be required when it is compared to a PK against a 14-man defence rather than normal open play. After all, the referee is the sole judge of Advantage. The OP's situation may still arise, but less frequently.

Pegleg
08-02-15, 20:02
If you create a 3 man overlap against 14 or 15 you've prpbably got your advantage.

Dealing with the facts as presented. Advantage was played / accrued and the game moved on. Assuming that the judgement was correct there is nothing, in principle with playing advantage and giving a card later.

crossref
08-02-15, 20:02
I think for a YC-worthy high tackle you are normally going to blow straightaway. Only play advantage for a clear and imminent try scoring opportunity.

1 - its a flashpoint, you want to be clear you are dealing with it
2 - they want to play against 14 men... that's a an advantage

Browner
08-02-15, 20:02
What if the chap you were planning on binning had intercepted the ball and run the length of the pitch to score? (After you had called advantage over)

Would you award the try and then bin him? Is that credible?
Would he now avoid a binning? Is that fair?

Also consider a possible backlash to this flashpoint incident occurring whilst you are looking for an advantage. There are definite benefits to blowing immediately when you see a high tackle worthy of a yellow card.

Interesting.
So if Mr intercept grabs the ball, are you suggesting we should immediately blow & YC the player , under the theory of ' He can't personally take advantage' because he shouldn't be on the pitch, ie ...your willingness to delay sanctioning is ONLY to benefit the non offending team play rather than his team or him.

??

Waspsfan
08-02-15, 20:02
I never said that I would delay sanctioning the player.

Browner
08-02-15, 21:02
I never said that I would delay sanctioning the player.

So what you do in the scenario of the interception??

OB..
08-02-15, 22:02
To clarify the philosophical point, let's change the scenario.

Blue have a team warning for ruck offences when Blue 12 comes in the side of a ruck. Clear YC, but not foul play. Referee calls advantage. Red move the ball quickly, big gain in ground, advantage over, before the winger is tackled near the goal-line. He flips the ball back, straight into the arms of Blue 12, who runs past some wrong footed opponents into the clear.

Do you blow your whistle to stop play because Equity says he should not have been on the field?

Shelflife
08-02-15, 22:02
Daftmedic was correct in his handling of the situation, but as waspsfan points out it opens up a potential nightmare senario where the YC recipient scores a try. Again its correct in law,but its a hard sell and in a tight game could make life very difficult for you as a ref.

So abiding by my motto of KISS (keep it simple stupid) unless there was a try in the offing I would blow straight away and YC there and then.

andyscott
08-02-15, 23:02
Handling was correct.

Never mind the well if the dog ran on the pitch carrying a tree, then 6 aliens from the stand threw a giraffe on the pitch etc etc.

Blackberry
08-02-15, 23:02
Handling was correct.

Never mind the well if the dog ran on the pitch carrying a tree, then 6 aliens from the stand threw a giraffe on the pitch etc etc.

I wish people would stop bringing up the dog_tree_aliens_giraffe game again, i am trying to move on.

Blackberry
08-02-15, 23:02
This is not an issue which the refs need to mediate, instead players and refs just need to understand the risks.

So the refs will always try to play the advantage described in the examples above and players have to understand that there is an outside chance that after advantage is called over things could go badly wrong as described above. Its a risk they have to take and is outside the control of the referee.

Pegleg
08-02-15, 23:02
If advantage is there play on UNLESS you have a good reason not to do so. There will always be specific incidents where a prompt whistle is the right thing to do. But there will be many where playing advantage is the right action. To answer the point that playing against 14 is an advantage. Indeed and that is what will happen for 10 minutes after the next stoppage!

andyscott
08-02-15, 23:02
This is not an issue which the refs need to mediate, instead players and refs just need to understand the risks.


Ah but this is letsblameourselvesnottheplayers.rugbyrefs.com ;)

ctrainor
09-02-15, 09:02
I've actually called, "I've got it, advantage red, he's going".
Fortunately never had the try scored scenario but when play stopped everyone knew who was going for at least 10.

crossref
09-02-15, 09:02
Penalty against R 17 for high tackle. I've got the number and St I have the advantage. They go 25 meters up the pitch I shout advantage over. Then their winger gets shot by a sniper falls over and the balls spills forward. I peep then peep peep time off.
Call R 17 and skipper to me. I issue yellow to 17 for the tackle but the restart is to R after knock on.
Myself and the assessor were not sure if this is correct or did I sell my bullshit well?

I think the mistake here is calling advantage over - because it wasn't.
I think that after YC-worthy high tackle advantage is only over if they score, or if there is another PK offence, at which point you can issue the card

I don't think advatage can be over just because they made 25m, because the oppo still have 15 players on the pitch

FlipFlop
09-02-15, 10:02
I would have no issue with YC at the next stoppage. IF that means the person being YC'ed is also a try scorer - so be it. The card is my option, not the teams. They need to play what is infront of them.

But if I am going to YC, then any advantage has to be fairly likely to accrue. Unlikely to be playing advantage for a PK & YC offence toot far from the try line, then the advantage over call is when a score happens. So the situation is highly unlikely to occur. If you are playing advantage for an offside, 40-50m from the tryline, then I have to ask - why YC? And what possible advantage was "on" that you didn't stop it and give the card there and then if it really was justified?

TheBFG
09-02-15, 10:02
One thing I don't think is clear is where this took place on the pitch??

On this occasion no big deal and you "got away with it"

Just maybe a re-think on when you're going to call advantage over if you're coming back for a YC, mu guess is that one just didn't "look right"?

Phil E
09-02-15, 10:02
What sort of dog?

Daftmedic
09-02-15, 22:02
Funny enough it was a six foot five second row dog with a beard Phil E. I beleive your very well acquainted with the individual.