PDA

View Full Version : England v France . Feeding scrum



CrouchTPEngage
22-03-15, 02:03
It cant be just me. Why is a non-straight put-in not penalised in the 6 Nations. Just re watching the French scrum v England and almost all of the put-ins were fed.I am now totally confused or suspect i am over harsh in policing the straight put-in.
I always tell the 9s that any part of the ball ,must hit that imagunary red carpet, 30cm wide, down the centre of the scrum. But France today were taking the Michael.

Just a thought.

Pegleg
22-03-15, 09:03
Senior rugby has, based on the evidence "agreed" to ignore the "FEED" (Notice they do not call it the put it!) Wether this is by edict / secret email or carrier pigeon I am not informed.

There appears to be a caveat that the elite boys can give 5 not straights per seaso. All of these must be given in the last 5 minutes of a game.

Ronald
22-03-15, 11:03
Agreed...same in the Super 15 down here. I have health issues, so won't take the field this year, so I'm helping with coaching young refs. I hammered one last week on the feeds during his game; his response...did you see Super rugby?

didds
22-03-15, 14:03
"And when you referee Super Rugby you can do what they want. Until then you do what _I_ want".

As for it being France - its bloody everyone. the French are no different that anybody else.

didds

Ronald
22-03-15, 15:03
Those were my exact words, Didds!

Dixie
22-03-15, 16:03
There was one where the French hooker had his foot up for a good second before the ball was fed into his second row. As that doesn't apparently meet the C&O requirement, I think we can infer that there is indeed the sort of agreement referenced above.

Browner
22-03-15, 16:03
Keep hammering the young refs on straight put ins, otherwise our scrums become as meaningless contests as RL's !!!!

ChrisR
22-03-15, 18:03
Why bother enforcing a straight feed if there is no contest for the strike?

When was the last time you saw the non-feeding side go for the ball? Not at the top level.

I think that it is by agreement. If they are not going to contest it then they may just as well squint feed. At least it's then one less reason to blow it up.

OB..
22-03-15, 19:03
Remember the scrum in England v Australia where the ball sat in the middle of the tunnel because initially neither side dared strike for it? Eventually England got sufficient nudge to win the ball. Contest!

chrismtl
22-03-15, 21:03
It's now in every game I watch. The hooker has his foot out almost when the ref says set and the ball is fed straight onto his heel. This was something that was stressed either last year or 2 years ago and was being called, so why the sudden turn around. As much as I hate all the reset scrums and refs calling penalties on the "successful" ones, I still love when a ball is put in straight and you have a proper contest between 2 solid scrums until one wins the ball.

Ian_Cook
22-03-15, 22:03
[devil's advocate]Where in the Laws does it say that the scrum has to be a contest?

LAW 20 DEFINITIONS
The purpose of the scrum is to restart play quickly, safely and fairly, after a minor
infringement or a stoppage.
[/devil's advocate]


Why is it that I can stand on the sideline on Saturday mornings and watch game after game of grass roots level rugby of various grades, and never see a single scrum reset, yet I only have to watch one game at elite level to see a dozen of them?

Rushforth
22-03-15, 22:03
Why is it that I can stand on the sideline on Saturday mornings and watch game after game of grass roots level rugby of various grades, and never see a single scrum reset, yet I only have to watch one game at elite level to see a dozen of them?

You are getting old.

Ian_Cook
22-03-15, 22:03
You are getting old.

How often to you have to reset scrums at your level?

didds
23-03-15, 00:03
I am with Ian.

I get asked to come and help age group sides whose scrummaging - TBH and frank - is pretty bloody shonky.

But even though they seem to have front rows that hinge through poor technique you still nerver see a collapse because the other bloke has equally poor technique which never sees any real pressure exerted!

didds

OB..
23-03-15, 02:03
How often to you have to reset scrums at your level?I'll try to find time to go though my records. I record resets and that is something I usually comment on in my reports. I cannot remember when I last saw a game with no resets.

Of course I also see more scrums because there are more errors.

Ian_Cook
23-03-15, 03:03
I am with Ian.

I get asked to come and help age group sides whose scrummaging - TBH and frank - is pretty bloody shonky.

But even though they seem to have front rows that hinge through poor technique you still nerver see a collapse because the other bloke has equally poor technique which never sees any real pressure exerted!

didds


I'll try to find time to go though my records. I record resets and that is something I usually comment on in my reports. I cannot remember when I last saw a game with no resets.

Of course I also see more scrums because there are more errors.


Well, I don't keep written records, but I do recall watching three or four Riwaka adult and age grade matches on the same day near the end of last season, and there was not a single scrum reset in any of them, from probably about 30 - 40 scrums in all.

Grass roots just don't seem to have the scrum issues that elite players do; grass roots make scrummaging look easy, elites seem to make it look hard.

Pegleg
23-03-15, 09:03
Grass roots have few issues at scrum time. That is where I spend my days.

The causes?

Offences ( usually pretty obvious at this level. Players are not that skilled is "covering up" stuff) - Very few. So we get a PK

Slips due to ground condition etc - A few more. We have a reset

Wheeling - either intentional legal stuff or just due to mismatch of strength etc - The biggest "problem".

If the wheel is legal and a team wins the T/O Fair play especially if they have a rock solid scrum and possession from the T/O scrum.

If I get a number of wheels at the "same" scrum. I try (and usually succeed on getting cooperation from the packs to control it. It ofeten occurs where both sides have a very strong LHP and a, relatively, poor THP or something similar.

Certainly the problem at scrum time is at the top and not in "real rugby".

Pegleg
23-03-15, 09:03
Why bother enforcing a straight feed if there is no contest for the strike?

When was the last time you saw the non-feeding side go for the ball? Not at the top level.

I think that it is by agreement. If they are not going to contest it then they may just as well squint feed. At least it's then one less reason to blow it up.

Chicken and egg?

or

Egg and chicken?

irishref
23-03-15, 09:03
Chicken and egg?

or

Egg and chicken?

fried rice?

ChrisR
23-03-15, 12:03
This isn't going to change until scrums start ending successfully. As long as scrums end in FKs and PKs no team is going to spend any time on winning against the head. If a team became proficient at contesting the ops ball they'd be insisting on a straight feed.

They're not working on tactical play from scrums now because it's a waste of time.

Rushforth
23-03-15, 15:03
How often to you have to reset scrums at your level?

It really depends on the weather more than anything. If there hasn't been any rain all week, scrum resets are rare. If the ground is soggy, on the other hand....

crossref
23-03-15, 15:03
the most common reason I seem to have to reset a scrum is ball coming straight out the tunnel.

not sure what the ref can do about that -- except to allow more foot up and feeding !

Phil E
23-03-15, 16:03
the most common reason I seem to have to reset a scrum is ball coming straight out the tunnel.

not sure what the ref can do about that -- except to allow more foot up and feeding !

Ping em first time for foot up.
It will rarely happen again.

OB..
23-03-15, 18:03
On average over my last 24 games, 22% of scrums were reset. Maximum 41%, minimum 10%

Scrums: max 34, min 13
Resets: max 10, min 2

ChrisR
24-03-15, 13:03
the most common reason I seem to have to reset a scrum is ball coming straight out the tunnel.

not sure what the ref can do about that -- except to allow more foot up and feeding !

You could suggest that the SH put a wee bit of backspin on the ball so that it stops dead in the tunnel.

ChrisR
24-03-15, 13:03
On average over my last 24 games, 22% of scrums were reset. Maximum 41%, minimum 10%

Scrums: max 34, min 13
Resets: max 10, min 2

OB, do you record the causes? Do wheels through 90 count as a reset or a new scrum?

Browner
24-03-15, 15:03
On average over my last 24 games, 22% of scrums were reset. Maximum 41%, minimum 10%

Scrums: max 34, min 13
Resets: max 10, min 2

IYO , Is this mainly influenced by the referee tolerance or the scrummagers attitude , toward ?

OB..
24-03-15, 19:03
OB, do you record the causes? Do wheels through 90 count as a reset or a new scrum?
I note them at the time but do not transfer the reasons to my permanent records. Usually it is because the scrum is unstable or incorrect in some way. Maybe one front row wants a reset, someone slips, neither front row is bound properly, #8s not being bound on etc.