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Crucial
26-04-15, 05:04
Given that all teams will try and push the offside line with line speed such an important part of defensive systems nowadays and the difficulties for the referee to watch the lineout and both teams 10 meters back (especially after the ball has been thrown but the lineout isn't over) are there any really good reasons why the AR still needs to stand at the place of touch?
Surely once the lineout has been set up the AR could move 10 metres and control one offside line while the other AR does the other line?
Maybe just an old way of doing things that could be changed now the sideline official is more than a TJ and could be better used?

Dickie E
26-04-15, 06:04
I'm Ok with AR dropping flag and not standing directly behind thrower, but IMO he needs to be near LoT to watch for the myriad of lineout offences including throw not straight, interference in air, throw not 5 metres, closing gap, etc.

Attacking back-line not remaining 10? Immaterial as long as not taking pi5s.

spmilligan
26-04-15, 10:04
Generally, when I do ARing the referees brief is for me to look for offences committed across the line down low, like taking support players out, obstruction etc. Also to manage the defending non thrower and the not 5 if needed. Ref will take high offences and not straight. I also do as Dickie suggested step to one side to gain a better view and I agree not too worried about attacking back line but do keep one eye on them.

beckett50
26-04-15, 12:04
Given that all teams will try and push the offside line with line speed such an important part of defensive systems nowadays and the difficulties for the referee to watch the lineout and both teams 10 meters back (especially after the ball has been thrown but the lineout isn't over) are there any really good reasons why the AR still needs to stand at the place of touch?
Surely once the lineout has been set up the AR could move 10 metres and control one offside line while the other AR does the other line?
Maybe just an old way of doing things that could be changed now the sideline official is more than a TJ and could be better used?

Are you referencing this to the Community game or the professional (L5 and above)?

If the latter, then as spmilligan and Dickie E have said, it very much depends upon the referee brief and his/her requirements at the Line out.

On the community game if you have a wide enough field of view you can usually tell if the defending backs have encroached beyond where they set and whether they move before your arm comes down. Normally you get the forwards encroaching when there is a shortened line out, as they get over excited by the prospect of a good maul IMO

Browner
26-04-15, 16:04
I'm looking forward to the day that ' 53rd generation' hawkeye technology is allied to voice recognition technology and ball GPS , so that if the referee says "ruck" then colour coded offside lines are automatically repositioned & projected via lazers onto the playing surface, so that all players can observe them .... Gotta be the future :biggrin:

Dixie
27-04-15, 13:04
Generally, when I do ARing the referees brief is for me to look for offences committed across the line down low, like taking support players out, obstruction etc. Also to manage the defending non thrower and the not 5 if needed. Ref will take high offences and not straight. I also do as Dickie suggested step to one side to gain a better view and I agree not too worried about attacking back line but do keep one eye on them.

Hey Spike - great to see you are still on here! We get an update from you a few times per year, and its fantastic to see you've got yourself to 8+1. Congrats - we've both come a long way since the old RFU mini/midi/youth forums!

thepercy
27-04-15, 15:04
Could this be achieved/already being done by the AR on the non-lineout side of the pitch?

Crucial
27-04-15, 20:04
Thanks for the insights guys. Of course I realise that ARs will be doing what the ref wants them to do, just wondering how necessary it is for them to be in line.
From a spectators pov it appears that the AR is adding little in that position, but if refs are using them (and listening to them) then all good.
Interesting how many off the comments show how far down the list offsides are in thinking though. Is this a case of not seeing the wood for the trees?
Breaching the offside line by even half a step (at pro levels) has a huge effect on space and ability to get the game moving. IMO it is one of the big issues/ questions of the game at the moment. 'How to effectively monitor the offside line'. ARs can't always be in place, Refs don't have eyes in the back of their heads etc etc. This was just a suggestion to help.
In your experience does the openside AR generally monitor the defensive line then?

Wert Twacky
28-04-15, 08:04
Generally speaking, the far side AR would stand on the defensive team's 10m line from the lineout and be responsible for either calling an offence in (if they really do take the pi**) or, as what normally happens, advise the referee at the next lineout that the *** backs took a gamble last time out and crept up. Over to the referee to have a word/manage.

The AR on the line for the lineout has a whole heap of things to look at, and so... spread the load..... leave the defending offside 10m to the other AR.

Dickie E
28-04-15, 09:04
In your experience does the openside AR generally monitor the defensive line then?

Yes. That is why he stands where he does.

Crucial
29-04-15, 21:04
Generally speaking, the far side AR would stand on the defensive team's 10m line from the lineout and be responsible for either calling an offence in (if they really do take the pi**) or, as what normally happens, advise the referee at the next lineout that the *** backs took a gamble last time out and crept up. Over to the referee to have a word/manage.

The AR on the line for the lineout has a whole heap of things to look at, and so... spread the load..... leave the defending offside 10m to the other AR.

Thanks for the explanation. Makes sense.

I guess it would take a directive to clamp down on offsides to make this approach differ. Even creeping up cuts down time and space for the attacking team. I can fully understand the line being a little softer at lower levels where players aren't necessarily doing this deliberately and require managing, but at the top levels I see very good reasons to take a hard line approach

ChrisR
29-04-15, 23:04
Yes, defensive lines do take time & space away and are quite likely to get called on it. Attacking lines get a jump most of the time and almost never get called.

Dickie E
29-04-15, 23:04
The one to look for from the attacking team is when they have a short lineout with several forwards starting 10 metres back but running in as soon as the ball has been caught.

OB..
30-04-15, 01:04
If the ball is stolen at a lineout, the attacking team suddenly becomes the defending team and the players rush up to their defensive positions, often too far.