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irishref
17-06-15, 08:06
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jun/16/malaysa-algeria-rugby-final-abandoned-brawl

Kind of surreal reading.

MrQeu
17-06-15, 10:06
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkWrwKpQaaU

http://fibladi.dz/media/k2/items/src/Rugby-algerien-16-6-2015.jpg

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/83661000/jpg/_83661862_algeriaandmalaysiaplayers.jpg

Browner
17-06-15, 14:06
It's difficult to know where to start, so let's try ... Badgering to "change the referee" is wholly unacceptable. Always.

I hope WR have the backbone to send a strong message to even a 'developing' nation.

crossref
17-06-15, 16:06
It's difficult to know where to start, so let's try ... Badgering to "change the referee" is wholly unacceptable. Always.

I hope WR have the backbone to send a strong message to even a 'developing' nation.

I think that video is after the brawl [?] is he saying that he asked the officials to change the referee right at the start, some controversy with the match ball ??? It's not quite clear.

there must be more video out there somewhere, of the whole game and what happened.

crossref
17-06-15, 16:06
a clip from the match


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovgzUUt03Lg

two rather messy scrums!

Browner
17-06-15, 17:06
two rather messy scrums!

Looks like ...
Scrum 1) no8 picks up ( good timing to avoid a wheel turnover!) And drives attempting to score, resulting in a "green held up" over the line decision.
Scrum 2) several reds broke their bind and interfered with green no8 progress to the line. At 'least' a PT rather than a mere PK.

beckett50
17-06-15, 20:06
Would agree with Browner on this.

The first was a held up, although the secondary signal was quite poor and the 2nd was definitely cause for a PT and perhaps even a YC to red 20 for kicking the ball out of the scrum.

I have posted elsewhere that WR need to take action on this, since one presumes the match officials were appointed by WR. If they were appointed by the regional body then they need to take some serious action. Developing nations or not, this kind of behaviour has no place in our beautiful game.

Let's see what happens.

Simon Thomas
17-06-15, 20:06
I would be reporting as a Match Observer that the referee was totally out of his experience and comfort zones both in his technical decisions, sanctions applied and management capability.

crossref
17-06-15, 21:06
More content now
https://youtu.be/jav4PhraCug

Perhaps someone could summarise the French? But quite lot in English as well

Notable is the chief blazer at the ceremony at the end (they had one!) apologising for the performance of the referee... Hmmm.

MrQeu
18-06-15, 00:06
(0:40) What happened at the end of the match?

Well, really, the refereeing all along the match. I think there's been like 30 PK against us, unimaginable. And just 2 in our favor. We stand, we stand... A bad gesture by the Malaysian team*.... and well, rugby is a combat sport and it's off. General fight. Match stopped and we loose the match. Bufff.... Is it a bad image for them? Is it a the image of this sport to do this? Has the referee been....? I don't know. Furthermore, I'm sure this doesn't show the best.

What are the consequences for Algeria now?

I don't know. I hope that all the work done before. All the team has work together for this event. We were prepared for everything. We've tried everything to try and win, try to, do everything in our hands... well, it's uneasy not to be in the other situation. I have no more morale. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to do. I hope that the federation, Algeria, the algerians will understand. We've tried to bring some algerian flavor but we weren't able. We'll try to do it in the future.


(*I'd infer he refers to a punch, or some other unsportman conduct by a Malay player.)


(In the huddle) I'm proud of you guys.


Coach: Today we've learned a lot. Together winning and together loosing. Today I look into your eyes and I thank you all

MrQeu
18-06-15, 00:06
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHmFAyuWoAAXhXm.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHmE_yJXAAE0W69.jpg

TheBFG
18-06-15, 09:06
well we all know that pictures tell a thousand words, and the 2 above certyainly don't look good from an Algerian POV, but I'd guess there are more than tell another side of the story?

Bit like the Malaya player hitting the SH and a coach (?) over the head with a chair then running off :clap: v brave!

MrQeu
18-06-15, 10:06
I'm trying to post all the images I find.

As for the translation. It may seem a little sketchy and sometimes some phrases have no ending. It's on pourpouse as I tried to show how he spoke, some dubitative moments etc. And it was 2am after attending a concert :D


Disclaimers: I'm not a trained translator but somehow a non-native trilingual. Neither french nor english are my mother tongues. His accent and cadence were not the very best for me to understand.

TheBFG
18-06-15, 10:06
your translation is absolutely fine :clap:

Browner
18-06-15, 11:06
I would be reporting as a Match Observer that the referee was totally out of his experience and comfort zones both in his technical decisions, sanctions applied and management capability.

In coming to that conclusion have you seen more of this match than the two scrum clips posted here :confused:

Algeria seem to be saying they were heavily penalised & didn't understand why - did they repeatedly fail to operate lawfully , or were they unfairly penalised, maybe they would have been happier and accepting of the referee ( sole fact of law) decisions if x6 cards had resulted from their 30-2 PK count

I suspect the post match apology was merely a politically inspired 'peace offering' ?

I don't believe its right that any referee should be publically hung/criticised in that way, and even if he was poorly understood players must accept his decisions ( does anyone have conclusive evidence that he was unfairly interpreting against one team only?) and let their union make their match protest without mass brawling , even if that's their 'default' resolution strategy.

( Watch the collective protestations toward the referee when he gives the "no try-held up decision" its awful, yet the referee is both calm, organised, refers for assistance, and relatively clear with his signalling despite such badgering from players. )

To excuse is tantamount to sanctioning such behaviour :nono::nono::nono::nono:

crossref
18-06-15, 12:06
I suspect the post match apology was merely a politically inspired 'peace offering' ?
:

I think the opposite : the political thing would be to say nothing. I suspect what we heard there was a bit of unguarded honesty!

I can't believe they went ahead with a medal ceremony after behaviour like that !

Browner
18-06-15, 13:06
I think the opposite : the political thing would be to say nothing. I suspect what we heard there was a bit of unguarded honesty!

I can't believe they went ahead with a medal ceremony after behaviour like that !

Was the speaker , or his casually referred to buddies qualified to technically competent to comment on the referees performance ??? Were they all miked up listening to any of his game management ?? Had they reviewed his decisions analytically v law ?Are they up to speed with WR clarifications on law or interpretation or GMG etc ???
Its possible of course, but 50p says they weren't even close to doing any of that.

Or was the referee 'offered' up on a sacrificial platter!? , or to deflect attention !? Or to appease??!!?

On a side note, the game has chosen a path of verbalised management, so how does it want to deal with players who don't 'understand' or then dont agree with the referee in charge in international competition, are they licensed to dispute argue and brawl!!!!, ......clearly not, but you get my drift

In fact, What happens if someone referees opponents from say... Windsor and Liverpoowl , or North v South Auckland or Beverley hills v bronx :biggrin:do different comprehenension levels permit such behaviour? :chin:
:sarc:

MrQeu
19-06-15, 20:06
I found a message by Azzouz Aib, the player we can see talking about changing the ref on the official facebook page of algeria rugby.

https://www.facebook.com/algerierugby/posts/854148398009135

bonjour et salam a tous. le rugby algerien vous souhaite a tous un bon ramadan. Je tiens a m excuser sur mes critiques envers l arbitrage de malaisie. Que l arbitre est tort ou raison, les choix de l arbitre ne peuvent pas etre contester. Les regles du rugby sont les memes pour tous le monde. je remercie a nouveau les organisateurs de ce tournoi qui ont un fait un travail exceptionel. En ce qui concerne les insultes du dernier post de chacun, ceci est strictement intolerable. le rugby est un sport de respect de partage, d amour et de tolerance. j en profite pour envoyer tous mes respects a nos freres malaisiens. le rugby n est qu un sport, mais les valeurs de ce sport sont indispensables a chacun. salam a tous et bon ramadan
smile emoticon
azzouz aib



Good morning and salam to everybody. Algerian rugby wish a good Ramadan to all of you.

I want to show an excuse of my critiques of the refereing in Malaysia. Be the ref correct o wrong, his decisions cannot be contested. The rules of rugby are the same for everybody. I want to thank once again the organisers of the tournament.

Cocnerning the insults of the last post, that's intolerable. Rugby is a sport of repect and share, of love and tolerance. I want to take the opportunity to send my respects to our Malay friends. Rugby is just a sport, but its values are indispensable to oneself. Salam to all of you and good Ramadan. Azzouz Aib.

crossref
21-06-15, 12:06
another clip from the game [anyone else get the impression that the Gazette de Fennec is reporting from an Algerian perspective? :)]

The desc here is "Action anodine du match Malaisie-Algérie avec une simulation de blessure ridicule d'un joueur malaisien qui provoque l'expulsion d'un joueur algérien - Crescent Cup 2015, Melaka - La Gazette du Fennec"

it says that the Malaysian feigning injury provokes the expulsion (RC presumably) of an algerian, however we don't see the RC.
You do see the play acting though!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74sIua6a3qI

Browner
21-06-15, 23:06
Nice to see an early shove penalised, & did we see an Algerian then slapping the ball down - presumably to prevent a QFK?

talbazar
23-06-15, 05:06
A little more info on this in this article:
http://www.lerugbynistere.fr/videos/video-crescent-cup-match-algerie-malaisie-termine-pugilat-2206151629.php

A bit lazy to translate everything, but here a few interesting bits:

From Midi Olympique, Azzouz Aïb (Algeria manager) declares:
When we read what's written, it feels like Algerian players are all thugs. Pictures circulating on internet only show our players hitting Malaysian players. But, I can guaranty you that Malaysian players weren't angels either. What happened is indeed regrettable and unacceptable. It has been a lot too far. We do apologise for this brawl and the bad image it gives to Rugby. Algerian Team does not promote nor accept violence in any form. This is not the image we want to give of our sport, particularly to children. Said so, I can assure you that no referee was assaulted by an Algerian player and that no nose was broken. I would like to clarify the truth.

When he is asked what started the brawl he answers:
When their tight head prop from Samoa has bitten at the 75th minute one of our players. Followed an exchange of punches. That's when
their number 7 grabbed a chair and throw it on our assistant coach Djemai Tebani et our scrum-half Boris Bouhraoua. When they saw Djemai and Boris both bleeding, my guys whose managed to keep it within themselves for the whole game just lost it.

An important part of information, that all of you may have seen somewhere else is that Algeria is still not part of World Rugby (nor part of Africa Rugby for that matter) as they still do not have a Union. The "Algerian Selection" is actually an "association" (some Commonwealth country would use "Charity" I believe).
Indeed this incident may very well delay (or more) their affiliation to World Rugby.

Cheers,
Pierre.