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View Full Version : Defenders offside at uncontested line out?



ctrainor
06-08-15, 21:08
Red tell you before the game they are going to use the tactic and not engage.
To avoid being grabbed how far do you let them drop back?
If Blue throw in and catch and there is a genuine 1m gap it is possible for blue to engage red thus forcing a maul.
Assuming Blue catch and don't move off the line of touch and red back off 2 or 3 meters to avoid getting bound in as soon as blue catch, they have technically left the line and must keep going back to the 10m line?

If they don't, penalty to blue on 15m line?

Phil E
06-08-15, 21:08
For me, if they back off, they have left the LOT before the ball, PK.

The correct tactic is to split left and right (not back), thus leaving a gap to avoid the maul, without leaving the LOT. This forces the opposition to keep it at the front where they can be tackled, or risk losing it for accidental offside if they take it to the back.

chrismtl
07-08-15, 03:08
I believe WR published something on not contesting lineouts and how they should be refereed, but I can't find it at the moment. If you don't want to contest the LO, you must move to the side, and not back up. Basically let it through until the ball crosses the LoT. I'll try finding it in the morning.

RobLev
07-08-15, 04:08
I believe WR published something on not contesting lineouts and how they should be refereed, but I can't find it at the moment. If you don't want to contest the LO, you must move to the side, and not back up. Basically let it through until the ball crosses the LoT...

Which should be pretty much immediately, since the ball must be held at the front of the maul-like thingy unless and until the other side engage; on the other hand, as soon as it does go back (illegally or otherwise) the lineout is over so the defenders can move back.

Law 19.14(e), by the way, doesn't require lineout players to stay at the LoT until the lineout has ended; it requires participating players not to leave the lineout, which is not the same thing.

Dickie E
07-08-15, 04:08
Basically let it through until the ball crosses the LoT.

As the ball will have been caught on, or very near to, LoT it won't take much for the ball to cross LoT.

ChrisR
07-08-15, 12:08
As the ball will have been caught on, or very near to, LoT it won't take much for the ball to cross LoT.

(b) Lineout ends. The lineout ends when the ball or a player carrying it leaves the lineout.

Is crossing the LoT leaving the lineout? The lineout includes the 1m gap and the bodies of the players.

Dickie E
07-08-15, 12:08
(b) Lineout ends. The lineout ends when the ball or a player carrying it leaves the lineout.

Is crossing the LoT leaving the lineout?

Dunno. Ask chrismtl

OB..
07-08-15, 13:08
There is no proper definition for a player leaving the lineout. The law requires the lineout players to form two straight lines, which might imply that any movement out of that line constitutes leaving the lineout. However that can't be true because we know players are allowed to change places.

Forming a maul requires binding, so having an opponent drive into you does not start a maul.

Browner
07-08-15, 18:08
There is no proper definition for a player leaving the lineout.

The law requires the lineout players to form two straight lines, which might imply that any movement out of that line constitutes leaving the lineout. However that can't be true because we know players are allowed to change places.

Not exactly. changing positions is merely a permitted exception.

(k)
Participating players in a lineout may change places before the ball is thrown.[/LAWS]

Players of either team must not leave the lineout once they have taken up a position in the lineout until the lineout has ended.

In this regard "taken up a position" must surely mean they've settled on a 'post change/linedance' position, then the Lineout begins & then they must stay in it [unless Peeling].

OB..
07-08-15, 19:08
Browner - true, but there is still no definition of how far is too far.

Browner
07-08-15, 21:08
Browner - true, but there is still no definition of how far is too far.

is there ever ??, & even when there is we get immediate immediately & delayed immediately & immaterial immediately :shrug:

Id say C&O stepping away from the line - is leaving it :chin:

OB..
07-08-15, 22:08
is there ever ??, & even when there is we get immediate immediately & delayed immediately & immaterial immediately :shrug:

Id say C&O stepping away from the line - is leaving it :chin:But I suggest a slight movement to make it clear you are not joining a maul might sensibly be allowed. At the moment it is becoming very difficult to avoid it, whereas it seems a very reasonable defence.