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therushen
20-08-15, 09:08
Hi

So this year kicking is introduced at Under 11.

We are scratching our heads at how to interpret the rule on offside at the point of a kick?

13 (f) When kicking, a player is offside if they are in front of the ball when it is kicked or within 7 metres of an opponent waiting to play the ball (or the place where the ball will land).

Does this mean the kicking side cannot challenge for the ball once they have kicked it as they cannot get within 7 metres of the ball before it is touched by an opposition player?

Also

When it talks about 'where the ball will land', where does a grubber fit this rule?

Thanks
Ezra

Phil E
20-08-15, 10:08
Ezra

This is no different to the "within 10m law" for adult rugby.

Players in front of the kicker must stand still and not advance forwards until put onside.
If a player is within 7m of where the ball will land, they must retire (not just stand still) behind that imaginary 7m line before they can re-enter play.

The kicking side can advance and challenge for the ball provided they were onside (behind the kicker) at the time of the kick.

With a grubber kick (in broad terms) almost everyone in front of the kicker is likely to be offside under 7m, so must retire behind the kicker before playing on.

What this is looking to prevent is all your team going forward to then stand and wait for the ball to be kicked to them. It's a bit like goal hanging in football (association) before the offside rule came in.

therushen
20-08-15, 10:08
Thanks so much for clearing that up. Transitional rules can sometimes throw up challenges but it sounds like this is nice and strait forward.

Many thanks

EZra


Ezra

This is no different to the "within 10m law" for adult rugby.

Players in front of the kicker must stand still and not advance forwards until put onside.
If a player is within 7m of where the ball will land, they must retire (not just stand still) behind that imaginary 7m line before they can re-enter play.

The kicking side can advance and challenge for the ball provided they were onside (behind the kicker) at the time of the kick.

With a grubber kick (in broad terms) almost everyone in front of the kicker is likely to be offside under 7m, so must retire behind the kicker before playing on.

What this is looking to prevent is all your team going forward to then stand and wait for the ball to be kicked to them. It's a bit like goal hanging in football (association) before the offside rule came in.

crossref
20-08-15, 10:08
but hang on
13 (f) When kicking, a player is offside if they are in front of the ball when it is kicked or within 7 metres of an opponent waiting to play the ball (or the place where the ball will land).

in adult rugby the 10m rule only applies for players in front of the kicker. If you are behind the kicker you are not offside and there are no restrictions on you. If it's a flat cross kick you may well be within 10m of where the ball will land, butif you were behind the kicker and onside - then no problem.

This U11 law says you are offside if you are in front of the kicker OR within 7m of where the ball will land.
which implies that if the kick travels only 2m forward, everyone, including on-side players, are now offside and have to retire 5m..

leaguerefaus
20-08-15, 10:08
but hang on
13 (f) When kicking, a player is offside if they are in front of the ball when it is kicked or within 7 metres of an opponent waiting to play the ball (or the place where the ball will land).

in adult rugby the 10m rule only applies for players in front of the kicker. If you are behind the kicker you are not offside and there are no restrictions on you. If it's a flat cross kick you may well be within 10m of where the ball will land, butif you were behind the kicker and onside - then no problem.

This U11 law says you are offside if you are in front of the kicker OR within 7m of where the ball will land.
which implies that if the kick travels only 2m forward, everyone, including on-side players, are now offside and have to retire 5m..
Indeed. It appears to be trying to make kick uncontested (which is not unreasonable for this age group) or it is worded extremely badly! I would say it is the former, otherwise they would have stuck with 10m if it was just traditional offside.

didds
20-08-15, 10:08
the 10m is reduced to 7m because its on a reduced size pitch.

My guess is this "OR 7m" rule is not fully thought through ie badly worded.

didds

Lee Lifeson-Peart
20-08-15, 11:08
This U11 law says you are offside if you are in front of the kicker OR within 7m of where the ball will land.
which implies that if the kick travels only 2m forward, everyone, including on-side players, are now offside and have to retire 5m..

Is that really what's intended?? It does read that way or is perhaps, as didds suggests, just badly worded?

I'm glad I don't referee little 'uns - it's rather complicated.

3265

crossref
20-08-15, 11:08
I don't know what's intended - I am not at all up to speed with the NROP or the reasoning.
Didds' theory is attractive to me as well - it seems to me that behind the ball carrier/kicker = NOT offside is a very, very, basic tenet of rugby that we should certainly should not mess with at U11. Rather like passing backwards and penalising a knock on. Oh. Wait.

didds
20-08-15, 13:08
Its not really a biggy - anyone with any sense reffing this age group will hopefully think "that is rubbish" and have a pragmatic approach and nuse the srtandard interpretation.

BUT.. as those of us that are involved at these levels, refs here are coaches, and SOME (perhaps understandably) may take that wording literally and implement it. We cann all say how silly that is, but it is at least understandable.

After all - why make a point of it if it is supposed to be the same as the full game, may be the argument!

didds

crossref
20-08-15, 14:08
the things is : there is quite a lot in the NROP that seems strange and counter-intuitive at first, but you have to go with it (and the coaches in my club do tell me most of it actually makes sense when you get used to it). In that context it's hard to say 'they can't have meant that!'

Dan_A
21-08-15, 13:08
My youngest will be in u11s this season. Having experienced NROP for the last few seasons I thinks Crossref's point above is exactly right. It's really problematic to just assume that "they can't have meant that". Also, you do find a lot of parents and this level (and even coaches) who are relatively inexperienced in rugby terms and therefore take the rules as gospel, with no room for interpretation.