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Taffy
18-09-15, 08:09
Watched the Barbarians v Samoa match yesterday. Barbarians attacking in the 22 one player passes it forward to another on the wing. It is not clear and obvious at the time but will become so when they TMO it. However just after that pass, there is a reaching out for one hand for the ball by Samoa that knocks the ball on and after the video was watched he was then yellow carded. Surely once the forward pass is recognised the game should stop for a scrum to Samoa?

John Lacey was the ref. I like him and his approach but has he got this wrong?

OB..
18-09-15, 09:09
Did the deliberate knock forward prevent the forward pass reaching the winger, or was that a subsequent pass?

If the former, then I see no problem. If the latter, ask yourself if you would have ignored some serious foul play just because of an earlier infringement.

Dickie E
18-09-15, 09:09
Watched the Barbarians v Samoa match yesterday. Barbarians attacking in the 22 one player passes it forward to another on the wing. It is not clear and obvious at the time but will become so when they TMO it. However just after that pass, there is a reaching out for one hand for the ball by Samoa that knocks the ball on and after the video was watched he was then yellow carded. Surely once the forward pass is recognised the game should stop for a scrum to Samoa?

John Lacey was the ref. I like him and his approach but has he got this wrong?

Wow! great scenario.

I agree with you, Taffy. Unless its dangerous play (law 10.4) first offence has to take precedence and anything after that is null and void.

Phil E
18-09-15, 10:09
How did they restart the game?
Did the referee state it was a forward pass, or is that just how you saw it?

FlipFlop
18-09-15, 11:09
The same John Lacey who in one of the England-France game earlier, refused to look at potential foul play because the ball was in touch, so anything after was irrelevant......

Another example which shows to me that he is not up to reffing at this level. But my views on JL are well known on here. Nuff said....

ChrisR
18-09-15, 19:09
I have a problem with any attempt to reach the ball with one hand being interpreted as 'deliberate knock on' and PKd with card.

Yes, there is a need to sanction cynical foul play but trying to intercept a pass isn't.

Dickie E
19-09-15, 14:09
I have a problem with any attempt to reach the ball with one hand being interpreted as 'deliberate knock on' and PKd with card.

Yes, there is a need to sanction cynical foul play but trying to intercept a pass isn't.

In my book, if it is not a genuine attempt to catch the ball (and that will generally involve 2 hands) then it is a deliberate knock on

4eyesbetter
19-09-15, 22:09
I can catch a ball one-handed and I have the world's smallest hands. It's not that difficult if you practice enough.

Dickie E
19-09-15, 23:09
I can catch a ball one-handed and I have the world's smallest hands. It's not that difficult if you practice enough.

To keep me happy it would want to be a pretty convincing effort. Sticking your hand in the path of the ball ain't gunna cut it.

4eyesbetter
20-09-15, 00:09
It's pretty hard to make a convincing effort at catching a ball one-handed but fail to catch; the failure itself makes the attempt look terrible. Sometimes it's the only practical way to get anything on the ball without dislocating your other shoulder and bringing it the other side of your neck.

Can't find a rugby example for the stark difference between success vs failure but there is this one-handed catching competition (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaU7hri0iOk) between retired NFL receivers; when it works they look effortlessly cool, when it doesn't they look like complete pricks, no middle ground.

ChrisR
20-09-15, 12:09
In my book, if it is not a genuine attempt to catch the ball (and that will generally involve 2 hands) then it is a deliberate knock on

Dickie, the law does not require an attempt to catch the ball. The law prohibits a deliberate knock or throw forward.

OB..
20-09-15, 13:09
Dickie, the law does not require an attempt to catch the ball. The law prohibits a deliberate knock or throw forward.I think that includes reckless action.

In the past we were advised that going for the ball one-handed was in itself enough. That has been rescinded, but it is still a strong indicator.

ChrisR
20-09-15, 17:09
My concern is that 'one handed' gets substituted for judgement.

Not that long ago I saw a lofted pass intercepted by a defender who jumped and reached for it one handed over his head. Failed to catch and the ball went forwrd (marginal). Peep! PK and YC. Crap. That's what I'm talkng about.

OB..
20-09-15, 18:09
My concern is that 'one handed' gets substituted for judgement.

Not that long ago I saw a lofted pass intercepted by a defender who jumped and reached for it one handed over his head. Failed to catch and the ball went forwrd (marginal). Peep! PK and YC. Crap. That's what I'm talking about.There will always be marginal decisions, and I suppose the direction the player's hand was moving in or facing might also be significant.