View Full Version : "Use it" than a second shove - Aust v Fiji

25-09-15, 02:09
In the Aust v Fiji game, Aust thad the ball at the No. 8's feet. Ref called "Use it", Then then put on a second shove, the Fiji pack buckled and Aust were awarded a penalty.

Was this right, does a second shove count as using it if the scrum starts going forward? Seemed a bit tough on the Fijians to me

25-09-15, 08:09
For me "use it" means 'move it from the scrum' otherwise turnover.

tim White
26-09-15, 10:09
Do they not have 5 seconds to use it or lose it?

26-09-15, 11:09
Use it? Wasn't this a scrum?

26-09-15, 12:09
Nothing in law supporting this instruction afaiaa; implied instruction to get it away from the back of the scrum cos it's been there too long. At junior level the ball cannot be held at the 8's feet and must go immediately, so I would call it then rather than penalise straight away. I remember seeing it happening, and agree it was tough on Fiji. Down here in the weeds I can envisage calling this if I have a safety concern about the scrum possibly collapsing.

The Fat
26-09-15, 13:09
My understanding is that as for the call of "Use it" at a maul when the maul has stopped a 2nd time, you don't get to restart the shove and so should it be at a scrum.
If the ball is within the scrum, but not at the #8's feet, and it either remains or becomes stationary, the ref can simply order another scrum with the feed to the team not in possession when he blew it up.
However, if the ball is at the #8's feet, he can call them to "Use it". This was (semi)-detailed in a Law Application Guideline issued in May this year and reads as follows,

1.If scrum is or becomes stationary
2.If ball is available (No. 8 feet)
3.The referee will call “use it”

26-09-15, 18:09
Do they not have 5 seconds to use it or lose it?

Yes they do.....but using it means moving it away from the scrum. Not getting another push on.

26-09-15, 19:09
I don't see the need for "Use it" at a scrum. The team not in possession still has options such as wheeling.

Oh, I forgot, wheeling is a nono ....

29-09-15, 14:09
Told last night that at society meeting that:

Use it means get it out of the scrum immediately.

There is NO 5 seconds "allowance" at a scrum and another drive is not allowed.

29-09-15, 15:09
If I told a SH to use it, I would mean : remove it from the scrum.

Does he have 5 seconds? I think that's tricky, I can understand that he would have a very reasonable expectation that he does have 5 seconds, based on the ruck/maul laws. To blow up and tell him that he doesn't get 5 seconds at a scrum, would seem a bit of a gotcha.

I think you'd have to make that clear 'Use it now. You don't have five seconds, use it now' something like that.

Personally I'd probaby give him five seconds. But I can't remember this ever coming up. IME scrum halves told to use it never take more than a second or two.