PDA

View Full Version : Can a flanker allow to grab the ball to the backward by his hand during scrum?



BG VON
30-09-15, 05:09
please see from 25:43
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh_YxqOolVs

:frown:

The Fat
30-09-15, 07:09
No...

Ian_Cook
30-09-15, 08:09
please see from 25:43
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh_YxqOolVs

:frown:

That was illegal play by Red 6 - handing the ball in the scrum.

I'm guessing this match had TJs not ARs otherwise the AR would have called that in.

Rich_NL
30-09-15, 08:09
No - 20.9.b, penalty offence... if the referee is in a position to see it. It should have been pretty clear to an AR though.

Phil E
30-09-15, 09:09
That was illegal play by Red 6 - handing the ball in the scrum.

I'm guessing this match had TJs not ARs otherwise the AR would have called that in.

There was a chap with a flag on the far side in the same shirt as the Ref, so I am guessing they had appointed AR's.
Nearside AR should have picked that up......PK.

Ian_Cook
30-09-15, 10:09
There was a chap with a flag on the far side in the same shirt as the Ref, so I am guessing they had appointed AR's.
Nearside AR should have picked that up......PK.


Yep, good spot. There one on the near side you can see at 9:43

ddjamo
30-09-15, 10:09
3307

.......

TheBFG
30-09-15, 11:09
Ha Ha, know that ref, link en-route to him NOW!

TheBFG
30-09-15, 11:09
Lazy RN ref, should have got round the other side :wink:

RobLev
01-10-15, 00:10
No - 20.9.b, penalty offence... if the referee is in a position to see it. It should have been pretty clear to an AR though.

The ball came out of the far side of the tunnel before he touched it - reset scrum and throw in again (20.7(b)):

If the scrum half throws in the ball and it comes out at either end of the tunnel, the ball must be thrown in again unless a free kick or penalty has been awarded.

Alternatively, if you don't stop play at that point, the flanker brings the ball back into the scrum, so it's a FK under Law 20.9(d):

All players: When the ball comes out, leave it out. When the ball has left the scrum, a player must not bring it back in to the scrum.

Sanction: Free Kick

But in either event, it's not a PK under 20.9(b) because he doesn't handle the ball in the scrum.

Phil E
01-10-15, 09:10
The ball came out of the far side of the tunnel .............

Just had another look and in my opinion the ball didn't leave the scrum before it was handled.
It was also touched by the front row.

RobLev
01-10-15, 10:10
Just had another look and in my opinion the ball didn't leave the scrum before it was handled.

I disagree (it was knocked by the outside of the THP's right knee, so got past him), but see why you think that. Look again though at 25:51, where the ball is in full view of a passing seagull. The flanker's arm is stretched out sideways and slightly forward to grab the ball.


It was also touched by the front row.

I cited 20.7(b), for which this isn't an issue.

20.7(c), where this is an issue, applies where the ball "comes out behind the foot of a far prop without being touched"; I don't think it did this, it came out between the far (ie closest to the camera) props.

Pinky
01-10-15, 23:10
The ball came out of the far side of the tunnel before he touched it - reset scrum and throw in again (20.7(b)):

If the scrum half throws in the ball and it comes out at either end of the tunnel, the ball must be thrown in again unless a free kick or penalty has been awarded.

Alternatively, if you don't stop play at that point, the flanker brings the ball back into the scrum, so it's a FK under Law 20.9(d):

All players: When the ball comes out, leave it out. When the ball has left the scrum, a player must not bring it back in to the scrum.

Sanction: Free Kick

But in either event, it's not a PK under 20.9(b) because he doesn't handle the ball in the scrum.

Was the flanker in the scrum? Ie still bound? If yes, did he handle the ball? Regardless of where it is then imho he handled the ball in the scrum and if I saw it I'd Pk or call it in.