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Steve70
19-10-15, 10:10
U13 match. Red v purple.

Purple 7 takes ball into maul. Purple drive forwards. Players come out of maul as it twists and drives forwards. Then, all that's left is purple 7 and red 5 holding onto ball while every other player stands and watches (very common at U13!).

Tug of war continues until they both end up on the floor, still both holding on the ball. They've fallen because they're wrestling the ball. Still, no one else enters to form a ruck - and therefore I can't shout ruck, no hands.

But they can't play the ball on the ground. So I stop play.

Is purple 7 now 'tackled' and red 5 the tackler as purple 7 had the ball, and is now 'brought to ground' by red 5? And therefore they both must release the ball... But does purple 7 then have the opportunity to turn and present? In which case do I ping red 5 for not releasing...? Or ping purple 7 for not releasing....

OB..
19-10-15, 10:10
Scrum, attacking side ball.

Steve70
19-10-15, 11:10
Because it's become unplayable...

crossref
19-10-15, 11:10
I love those games with youngsters -- the moments which end in everyone simply stopping playing! .... so (for some reason feeling rather silly yourself, now) you blow your whistle, and wonder how to restart.

Yes, I like OB's answer. Scrum attacking ball seems to cover it, and perhaps a quick word of advice to the players, if the situation merits it.

Dickie E
19-10-15, 11:10
For me, once a maul forms, players leaving the maul does not end it.

So we end up with a collapsed maul, nobody needs to release the ball.

Ball taken into maul by Purple so scrum Red.

Steve70
19-10-15, 11:10
That's exactly what I did. Scrum red, purple took it into maul.

Phil E
19-10-15, 13:10
For me, once a maul forms, players leaving the maul does not end it.

So we end up with a collapsed maul, nobody needs to release the ball.

Ball taken into maul by Purple so scrum Red.

This ^^^^^^^

Pegleg
19-10-15, 15:10
Indeed it is an unsuccessful end to the maul.

Scrum to the side not taking it in. So here i'ts Red scrum. If you were not sure who took it into the maul, then its a scrum to the side moving forward and if neither side was moving forward it is scrum to the attacking side[Side in the opposition half] {LAW 17.6 (c)}.

Dixie
19-10-15, 16:10
U13 match. Red v purple.

Purple 7 takes ball into maul. Purple drive forwards. Players come out of maul as it twists and drives forwards. Then, all that's left is purple 7 and red 5 holding onto ball while every other player stands and watches (very common at U13!).

Tug of war continues until they both end up on the floor, still both holding on the ball. They've fallen because they're wrestling the ball. Still, no one else enters to form a ruck - and therefore I can't shout ruck, no hands.

But they can't play the ball on the ground. So I stop play.

Is purple 7 now 'tackled' and red 5 the tackler as purple 7 had the ball, and is now 'brought to ground' by red 5? And therefore they both must release the ball... But does purple 7 then have the opportunity to turn and present? In which case do I ping red 5 for not releasing...? Or ping purple 7 for not releasing.... Ha! Great scenario! As games between Purple and red are often a mismatch in Purple's favour, the temptation is to ping Purple 7 on a point of principle and give Red another chance to lose the ball in the next contact. But I agree with M'Learned Friends who have commented before: the maul started, it never ended successfully, so scrum down, put-in to Red as the side that didn't take the ball into contact. Use it or lose it - law 17.6(g).

17.6(g) If the ball carrier in a maul goes to ground, including being on one or both knees or sitting, the referee orders a scrum unless the ball is immediately available.
When the ball is available to be played the referee will call “Use it!” after which the ball must be played within five seconds. If the ball is not played within five seconds the referee will award a scrum and the team not in possession of the ball is awarded the throw-in.