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Dave Sherwin
02-12-15, 15:12
I'm off up to the Bahamas in January to referee their promotion/relegation play-off in respect of the North America and Caribbean Rugby Association Championship and, on the Sunday, will be delivering a workshop to their existing referees on current issues etc. All of the refs have L1, but many have only very limited actual experience.

I've got a few ideas of my own, but I thought I'd see if the wider referee community have some ideas for stuff I should cover with that sort of group.

Phil E
02-12-15, 16:12
Dave

I would be tempted to go over the sort of things they are going to come across most in a match, so depending on time.......

Refereeing the breakdown (tackle to ruck)
Communication and Management (incl. Yellow Cards)
Refereeing the Scrum
Refereeing the Maul

The list of RFU CRDA's makes a good starting point for reference:
1. Law & Principles of Refereeing
2. Match Preparation & PRDP
3. Game Understanding
4. Communication & Management
5. Scrum
6. Lineout
7. Maul
8. Tackle/Ruck
9. Advantage
10. Practical Refereeing

I can send you some documents on these if you tell me which ones interest you.

Phil

Womble
02-12-15, 16:12
Tackle and post tackle, thats what makes the game work ! Average game you have 12 scrums, 16 lineouts and over 140 tackles/ post tackles. Just as coaches dont spend enough time on passing and catching, the very fundamental skills needed to play, refrees dont spend enough time learning how to referee the tackle/ post tackle phase ! That is all ...............

Dave Sherwin
02-12-15, 16:12
Thanks Gents - wholly agree that a focus on the tackle and ruck development will always be the most useful - in recent courses have really broken this down so that we add in each constituent part a bit at a time, discussing the relevant visual cues, mental checklists at each stage.

Phil, I'd love review some materials on:

Game Understanding
Communication & Management
Practical refereeing

Thanks!

Dave

Dan_A
02-12-15, 16:12
And for something a little lighter how about having a few myth buster type questions to chuck at them? Perhaps put them up to introduce each section, just to get some interaction. Maybe put them up as a short scenario, with multi choice answers and get them to vote...

Things like:-

"Let him up" when the full back drops on a kick

"Players 'marking' a lineout to stop the quick throw in"

"Players turning a knock on into a kick"

"Restarts going 10 yrds but bouncing on the way"

crossref
02-12-15, 17:12
someone -- is it Phil ? has a myth-buster powerpoint, posted up on here a couple of times before.

OB..
02-12-15, 18:12
What worries me about myth-busters is that they make an impact, but may well get remembered for the wrong reason.

Rushforth
02-12-15, 18:12
http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread.php?16059-Urban-Law-Myths-PowerPoint-presentation ?

tim White
02-12-15, 18:12
Preventative calls -'What could you say here, who to, and why?'

i.e. How to ref the game rather than get bogged down in law detail at grass roots level.

menace
03-12-15, 01:12
What I find interesting is that there is no real teaching on how to use the whistle properly. It's our most powerful communication tool yet we don't seem to teach how to be effective with this form of communication. Odd really.

If I'm ever giving a presentation or demo to new referee, especially younger refs...one of the first things I like to do is show them how to use the whistle (when and how and for what infringment) and then get them to practice it. (Tell them to bring their whistle with them). Nothing worse than seeing a ref that doesn't look to exude authority on the field cause they sound like an old balloon deflating.

didds
03-12-15, 07:12
I'd tell them all to go on a Scrum factory course.

This is of course an RFU thing, but I wold imagine other unions have similar foundation/CPD coaching courses.

I am available to be flown out to the Bahamas to deliver such a course, naturally, recompense to be arranged!

Didds
RFU Coach Developer

Pegleg
03-12-15, 08:12
I would help to know what is covered in YOUR L1 course. As, I'm sure L1, L2, L3 etc differ from union to union.

Womble
03-12-15, 09:12
I'd tell them all to go on a Scrum factory course.

This is of course an RFU thing, but I wold imagine other unions have similar foundation/CPD coaching courses.

I am available to be flown out to the Bahamas to deliver such a course, naturally, recompense to be arranged!

Didds
RFU Coach Developer

Have they changed the front row set up yet so that the hooker can strike, not just push ?

FlipFlop
03-12-15, 09:12
Pegleg - by Level 1 - he means the World Rugby Level 1 course. This is standard across the world, and used in all countries, except the "big" unions.

I think what to teach depends on their background rugby as well. I think a lot of refs in developing nations could do with some "coaching" of rugby - the principals of play. What teams are trying to do etc - so they understand the game, and then this builds into - when NOT to blow the whistle.

SimonSmith
03-12-15, 13:12
Based on what I see from our recent L1 grads, some kind of "tao of refereeing" would be good.

I think most of them don't know what they're trying to accomplish, at either a general or at a unit-specific level, and that makes them end up chasing everything.

Here's what we're trying to accomplish as referees - space, time and fair competition.
How do we accomplish that at each unit?
How does that affect where you stand/what you look for.

I think they get told a lot of "what" without understanding the "why" behind it.

And ensuring that they see the tackle/ruck as a holistic entity and not a checklist to work down. Those who adopt the checklist framework can't process the tackle quickly enough.

OB..
03-12-15, 14:12
And ensuring that they see the tackle/ruck as a holistic entity and not a checklist to work down. Those who adopt the checklist framework can't process the tackle quickly enough.Once they have internalised the check list, then they can assess the tackle much faster without missing anything out. I think the check list is a good starting point, despite its limitations.

crossref
03-12-15, 17:12
perhaps you could have a module on Obstruction, and when we apply 10.1(b) and (c)

I'll get my coat.

Pegleg
03-12-15, 19:12
Pegleg - by Level 1 - he means the World Rugby Level 1 course. This is standard across the world, and used in all countries, except the "big" unions.

I think what to teach depends on their background rugby as well. I think a lot of refs in developing nations could do with some "coaching" of rugby - the principals of play. What teams are trying to do etc - so they understand the game, and then this builds into - when NOT to blow the whistle.

Thank you FlipFlop. That make more sense now.

The Fat
04-12-15, 07:12
Thanks Gents - wholly agree that a focus on the tackle and ruck development will always be the most useful - in recent courses have really broken this down so that we add in each constituent part a bit at a time, discussing the relevant visual cues, mental checklists at each stage.

Phil, I'd love review some materials on:

Game Understanding
Communication & Management
Practical refereeing

Thanks!

Dave

Have a scan through this publication.
It really needs an update but still a lot of useful information in there to explain things like positioning and managing different phases.
Maybe you could browse through and put a line through anything irrelevant or just print the sections you believe are most helpful for their level.
http://www.rugbyquebec.com/uploads/AARQ/documents/IRB_-_Rugby_Ref_in_Practice.pdf

How are you presenting your course? Powerpoint or printed hand-outs?
I'll have a look at what resources I have here. You can PM me to request specific stuff and I'll see what I can send to you.

Dickie E
04-12-15, 08:12
Once they have internalised the check list, then they can assess the tackle much faster without missing anything out. I think the check list is a good starting point, despite its limitations.

Yes, its a bit like learning to drive a car: adjust mirrors - check; put on seat belt - check; blow into breath alcohol ignition interlock device - check.

Easy peasy after a few goes.

Womble
04-12-15, 14:12
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