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Voetap
28-02-16, 03:02
Learned colleagues, was the decision to award a 5-metre scrum to Team A in the following instances correct?

a. Team A hoofs the ball into Team B's in-goal, where a scrambling Team B player tries to catch it. The ball slips backwards through his hands, hits the ground, and rolls across his team's dead ball line.

b. Team A kicks the ball into Team B's in-goal, where a Team B player desperately dives to touch it down. He falls short so that the tops of his fingers propel the ball backwards along the ground over his team's dead ball line.

To clarify, in neither case did the defender knock the ball on (Law 22.14), ground it (Law 22.5), hold the ball when it crossed the dead ball line (Law 22.1.a), or intentionally throw the ball over the dead ball line (Law 10.2.c).

Does Law 22.11, which says what happens when a ball (as opposed to a player) touches the touch-in goal or dead ball lines, suggest that the decision could have been a 22-m drop-out instead (Law 22.7 has a similar implication)?

It is not an infringement in the field of play to let the ball fall backwards, and in-goal infringements "are treated as if they had taken place in the field of play" (Law 22.16).

Is there a law or guideline that specifies that it is an infringement when the ball falls backwards in the in-goal and the dead ball line comes into play?

Dickie E
28-02-16, 03:02
should be a 22 dropout in both cases. Provided no knock on or other infringement, it only matters who put the ball into in-goal

Voetap
28-02-16, 03:02
Thanks, Dickie, I had similar thoughts.

The Fat
28-02-16, 04:02
As Dickie said, 22 DO in both cases. Only time that would change would be

(1) defender failed to touch the ball and it went dead from the attacker's kick

(2) defender deliberately knocked the ball dead with his hand/arm

(3) defender knocked on

Ian_Cook
28-02-16, 05:02
As Dickie said, 22 DO in both cases. Only time that would change would be

(1) defender failed to touch the ball and it went dead from the attacker's kick

(2) defender deliberately knocked the ball dead with his hand/arm

(3) defender knocked on

Outcomes/Sanctions added...

(1) defender failed to touch the ball and it went dead from the attacker's kick
Outcome:
Defending team has options - Law 22.8
1. 22DO
2. Scrum where the ball was kicked from, their throw in

(2) defender deliberately knocked the ball dead with his hand/arm
Sanction:
PK against defending team - Law 10.2 (c)
Mark for the PK is on the 5m line, opposite theplace of infringement but no closer than 15 from either touchline - Law 10.2 (c)
Possible PT - Laws 10.2 (c) & 22.17 (b)

(3) defender knocked on
Sanction:
5M scrum in line with where the ball crossed the DBL - Law 22.14
Attacking team throw in

crossref
28-02-16, 09:02
I agree with the other posters - if the attackers take the ball into the in goal, and the defenders subsequently make it dead, then the outcome is always going to be a 22m DO

:biggrin:

The Fat
28-02-16, 10:02
I agree with the other posters - if the attackers take the ball into the in goal, and the defenders subsequently make it dead, then the outcome is always going to be a 22m DO

:biggrin:

I see what you did there:wink:

Pinky
28-02-16, 12:02
Yes 22 do. Ian, not sure how the defender could knock on over the dbl? Place of scrum5 would be in lime with th Ko?

Ian_Cook
28-02-16, 18:02
Yes 22 do. Ian, not sure how the defender could knock on over the dbl? Place of scrum5 would be in lime with th Ko?

Not sure why you think I said the defender knocked the ball on over the DBL . I didn't

It is illegal to knock, propel or throw the ball into touch, TiG or over the DBL in ANY diorection

I even posted the Law number ... 10.2 (c). Look it up

Dickie E
28-02-16, 20:02
Yes 22 do. Ian, not sure how the defender could knock on over the dbl? Place of scrum5 would be in lime with th Ko?

No, but he could knock on over TiG.

Pinky
28-02-16, 20:02
(3) defender knocked on
Sanction:
5M scrum in line with where the ball crossed the DBL - Law 22.14
Attacking team throw in[/QUOTE]

Ian, it was you who mentioned the dbl in connection with a ko. And wrongly, I think, suggested the scrum be in line with where the ball crossed the dbl, not in line with the ko.