PDA

View Full Version : [Junior] Has anyone ever seen this law in play?



ChrisR
11-03-16, 20:03
Kickoff/restart goes into goal

13.9(d) If the ball does not travel ten metres and ends up in the kicking team’s in-goal and:
• it is made dead by a defending player, or
• the ball goes into touch in goal, or
• lands on or over the dead ball line;
a 5-metre scrum is awarded and the attacking team throw in.

Dickie E
11-03-16, 21:03
I never have and never expect to.

The phraseology used is interesting. Sections (a) and (b) apply if the ball goes on or over the dbl. However, (d) applies if the ball LANDS on or over the dbl, which is different to rolling over the dbl.

Just goes to show law wording is not always the same as law intent.

13.9 Ball goes into the in-goal
(a) If the ball is kicked into the opponents’ in-goal without having touched or been touched by a player, the opposing team has three choices:
•To ground the ball, or
•To make it dead, or
•To play on.

(b) If the opposing team grounds the ball, or if they make it dead, or if the ball becomes dead by going into touch-in-goal, or on or over the dead ball line, they have two choices:
•To have a scrum formed at the centre, and they throw in the ball, or
•To have the other team kick off again.


13.9(d) If the ball does not travel ten metres and ends up in the kicking team’s in-goal and:
• it is made dead by a defending player, or
• the ball goes into touch in goal, or
• lands on or over the dead ball line;
a 5-metre scrum is awarded and the attacking team throw in.

ChrisR
11-03-16, 21:03
I also find it strange that this law only applies if the ball fails to go the required 10m. Wouldn't the attacking team get a 5m scrum if the same thing happened after the ball went 10m?

Ian_Cook
11-03-16, 21:03
Kickoff/restart goes into goal

13.9(d) If the ball does not travel ten metres and ends up in the kicking team’s in-goal and:
• it is made dead by a defending player, or
• the ball goes into touch in goal, or
• lands on or over the dead ball line;
a 5-metre scrum is awarded and the attacking team throw in.

Not in junior, but I have seen it once in first class rugby


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCqxlnR0lFs

Referee got the restart wrong IMO.

For mine, "over the dead ball line" is indistinguishable from "touch in goal". There is no situation where the restart of play differs from one to the other. They are both treated as touch in goal.


(I fully expect some pedant to find some chopperesque "angels on pinheads" interpretation of the letter of the law that makes them different)

ChrisR
11-03-16, 21:03
Thanx, Ian, and the referee got it wrong. Amazing!

Dickie E
11-03-16, 21:03
I also find it strange that this law only applies if the ball fails to go the required 10m. Wouldn't the attacking team get a 5m scrum if the same thing happened after the ball went 10m?

Yes, that is true, but this law makes it clear that it is not a scrum on halfway which would be the normal outcome for ball not travelling 10m.

ChrisR
11-03-16, 21:03
Seems to me that normally advantage would come into play and 22.11 applies.

chbg
12-03-16, 01:03
Thanx, Ian, and the referee got it wrong. Amazing!

13.9(d) was new in 2014, I believe; was it not a response to this particular play? Therefore the referee was correct at the time.

(Not the new OB)

ChrisR
12-03-16, 03:03
If the ball doesn't go 10m usually a. it's played by the receiving team (play-on) b. or it's played by the kicking team (scrum center) or c. it goes into touch (scrum or lineout) or d. it dies and no-one plays it (scrum).

In this scenario the ball stays live until it goes thru goal so even back in pre-2014 it should have been a attacking 5m.

RobLev
12-03-16, 10:03
Seems to me that normally advantage would come into play and 22.11 applies.

How so?

ChrisR
12-03-16, 11:03
Because kick-offs & restarts are not on the list of events when advantage would not apply.

Then we have:

22.7 (d) If a defending player threw or took the ball into the in-goal, and a defending player
grounded it, and there has been no infringement, play is restarted by a 5-metre scrum. The
position of the scrum is in line with where the ball has been touched down. The attacking
side throws in the ball.

OK, so the law says "threw or took", "defending player grounded it" and also "no infringements". This is starting to look like Monty Python's "Life of Brian" where Cleese is defending the Romans.

RobLev
12-03-16, 15:03
Because kick-offs & restarts are not on the list of events when advantage would not apply.

Then we have:

22.7 (d) If a defending player threw or took the ball into the in-goal, and a defending player
grounded it, and there has been no infringement, play is restarted by a 5-metre scrum. The
position of the scrum is in line with where the ball has been touched down. The attacking
side throws in the ball.

OK, so the law says "threw or took", "defending player grounded it" and also "no infringements". This is starting to look like Monty Python's "Life of Brian" where Cleese is defending the Romans.

Ther's also the problem that there's no opportunity to play advantage - the ball is dead...

Rawling
12-03-16, 15:03
The phraseology used is interesting. Sections (a) and (b) apply if the ball goes on or over the dbl. However, (d) applies if the ball LANDS on or over the dbl, which is different to rolling over the dbl.

Just goes to show law wording is not always the same as law intent.

Edit: reading comprehension fail. That is a good point.

Camquin
12-03-16, 17:03
Was there ever a time when touch-in-goal included the area beyond the dead ball line.

ChrisR
12-03-16, 21:03
Ther's also the problem that there's no opportunity to play advantage - the ball is dead...

crossref, deja vu all over again?

Ian_Cook
13-03-16, 09:03
Was there ever a time when touch-in-goal included the area beyond the dead ball line.

No, I don't think so. Earlier I posted...

"For mine, "over the dead ball line" is indistinguishable from "touch in goal". There is no situation where the restart of play differs from one to the other. They are both treated as touch in goal."

... and I'm sticking with that.

Camquin
13-03-16, 10:03
The only difference is that the ball can land in touch in goal after having entered touch before crossing the dead ball line and we would come back for a scrum on the half way.

But if it lands beyond the dead ball line it definitely went through the in- goal, so scrum 5.