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View Full Version : [Scrum] No. 8 not binding - is it legal?



dhammikaheenpella
07-04-16, 10:04
Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ_nz4cPw2o&feature=em-lbrm
Timeline: 1:24:30 to 1:25:00

During this U20 school match, I noticed that the No. 8 (of the attacking team) not binding many times, and also the opposite scrumhalf was trying to draw referee's attention on it but went without any luck. What I want to know is:

1. Can No. 8 not bind that way? Is it legal?
2. What was the reason for referee to give a penalty against the defending team?

Thanks

Dhammika

Ian_Cook
07-04-16, 10:04
Can you post a time in the video where you think this is happeneing

The Law says

20.3 BINDING IN THE SCRUM
(f) Binding by all other players. All players in a scrum, other than front-row players, must bind
on a lock’s body with at least one arm prior to the scrum engagement. The locks must bind
with the props in front of them. No other player other than a prop may hold an opponent.
Sanction: Penalty kick

If the No. 8 is complying with this, then he's fine. If not, then he is infringing.

Pegleg
07-04-16, 10:04
Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ_nz4cPw2o&feature=em-lbrm
Timeline: 1:24:30 to 1:25:00

This is the bit in the OP Ian.

dhammikaheenpella
07-04-16, 10:04
1:24:30 to 1:25:00

Phil E
07-04-16, 10:04
He was never bound on from the start of the scrum.
No idea what the PK was for as the referee doesn't give a secondary signal.

dhammikaheenpella
07-04-16, 10:04
In that case, pls follow the time given near the score (62.25 to 62.50)

dhammikaheenpella
07-04-16, 10:04
Not sure whether it is audible, I think the referee says "you can't... (do that??)"

Rich_NL
07-04-16, 11:04
Can't see what he's looking at, but I'd guess he's not happy with the opposition scrum half pushing/clambering over the purple SH. Really not sure, though.

Purple 8 is certainly not bound, though.

The Fat
07-04-16, 11:04
The ref appears to be looking at the defending team's #8 as the scrum is being set. He never actually looks at the attacking #8 who never binds at any stage.
When the ref awards the PK, you can hear someone say, "Number 8". If that is the ref's voice, I believe he has pinged the defending #8 (who at least has hands on his locks and really has no material effect) for the same offence that the attacking #8 is committing and he is involved in the play.
Don't worry about the defending SH trying to clamber over anyone to get to the #8, the attacking #4 who has packed as the open side flanker, alters his position to obstruct the defending SH.
So there are 2 offences by the attacking team that both have material effect and are ignored by the referee.

talbazar
07-04-16, 16:04
Penalty: without secondary signal and with the only angle given to the camera, my guess would be defending tight head prop pushing up.

But that's a wild wild guess from what I can see...

No8 not binding:
That generally happens on my 1st scrum and never later on...
Crouch
Bind
...
...
...
(number 8 raises his head)
(I point to his locks bottoms)
(he binds)
Set
../..


Btw Dhammikaheenpella, are you ref'ing in SL? Playing? Watching the game?

:pepper:

dhammikaheenpella
07-04-16, 16:04
I'm not playing, not refereeing but a keen rugby fan. And defending SC is my son

Taff
07-04-16, 18:04
.. The Law says

20.3 BINDING IN THE SCRUM
(f) Binding by all other players. All players in a scrum, other than front-row players, must bind
on a lock’s body with at least one arm prior to the scrum engagement. The locks must bind
with the props in front of them. No other player other than a prop may hold an opponent.
Sanction: Penalty kickIf the No. 8 is complying with this, then he's fine. If not, then he is infringing.
Don't forget the definition of binding either dhammikaheenpella.

Binding: Grasping firmly another player’s body between the shoulders and the hips with the whole arm in contact from hand to shoulder.
I've never seen a No 8 do that that before.

didds
08-04-16, 09:04
Don't forget the definition of binding either dhammikaheenpella.

Binding: Grasping firmly another player’s body between the shoulders and the hips with the whole arm in contact from hand to shoulder.
I've never seen a No 8 do that that before.

3418

are you saying that numbers eights because of their positioning at a scrum don't manage to get that bind on their teammate between the teammate's shoulder and hips (as opposed to around the bum) ? In which case I agree but that I would suggest is a failure of the binding laws to appreciate/reflect the #8's position in the scrum and the practicalities of where arms can actually go,

What would you suggest #8's do instead?


didds


didds