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Dan_A
04-05-16, 10:05
I've been refereeing mini/junior rugby union for a couple of seasons but my son is now playing rugby league in the Summer. He's an u11. I think that the correct laws are here:-

http://media.rladmin.co.uk/docs/RFL%20Primary%20RL%20Handbook%202016.pdf

Anybody got any experience of these?

Anyone got any advice on what the key things are to watch out for as a convert from Union?

And specifically my son wants to know:-
1) At u11 can he strip the ball in a 1 to 1 tackle (is this what is referred to as ball stealing)?
2) If he is the marker and onside, when can he either play the man or the ball (we think it might be different from u10 to u11 - he's is looking to pounce on the ball if the dummy half is slow to pick it up)?
3) Can the dummy half scoot - what happens if he is tackled (there seems to be a difference in wording between u10 and u11)?

leaguerefaus
04-05-16, 11:05
I've been refereeing mini/junior rugby union for a couple of seasons but my son is now playing rugby league in the Summer. He's an u11. I think that the correct laws are here:-

http://media.rladmin.co.uk/docs/RFL%20Primary%20RL%20Handbook%202016.pdf

Anybody got any experience of these?

Anyone got any advice on what the key things are to watch out for as a convert from Union?

And specifically my son wants to know:-
1) At u11 can he strip the ball in a 1 to 1 tackle (is this what is referred to as ball stealing)?
2) If he is the marker and onside, when can he either play the man or the ball (we think it might be different from u10 to u11 - he's is looking to pounce on the ball if the dummy half is slow to pick it up)?
3) Can the dummy half scoot - what happens if he is tackled (there seems to be a difference in wording between u10 and u11)?
We use similar rules for our mod rugby league here. From looking at the rule book you provided, he cannot strip the ball (this is what they have called ball stealing), and the dummy half can scoot and be tackled.

Your question about when he can move as marker is an interesting one, because it is not something even addressed in the International law book. The general belief is that if there is a dummy half present and he passes immediately, the marker cannot interfere with him. If there is no dummy half, he may play at the ball. If the dummy half decides to run or is indecisive (too slow), he is fair game. So in short, we expect the marker to hold a bit longer than the rest of the defensive line.

crossref
04-05-16, 11:05
I've been refereeing mini/junior rugby union for a couple of seasons but my son is now playing rugby league in the Summer. He's an u11. I think that the correct laws are here:-


don't do it !

all the kids that I know who played year round, non stop rugby for years on end -- they all burned out and stopped playing....

play one or the other type of the rugby, and have a break. In the long term an off-season is just as important as an on-season.


play rugby in the winter and in the summer play cricket, or tennis as God intended...

Dan_A
04-05-16, 11:05
don't do it !

all the kids that I know who played year round, non stop rugby for years on end -- they all burned out and stopped playing....

play one or the other type of the rugby, and have a break. In the long term an off-season is just as important as an on-season.


play rugby in the winter and in the summer play cricket, or tennis as God intended...

He plays cricket too... and tennis, basketball, football.

I do get your point though. He's in his last year at primary and just enjoying doing everything. Next year he'll be at secondary school with cricket on Saturdays (so no Rugby League) so the burn out risk goes away.

Dan_A
04-05-16, 11:05
Your question about when he can move as marker is an interesting one, because it is not something even addressed in the International law book. The general belief is that if there is a dummy half present and he passes immediately, the marker cannot interfere with him. If there is no dummy half, he may play at the ball. If the dummy half decides to run or is indecisive (too slow), he is fair game. So in short, we expect the marker to hold a bit longer than the rest of the defensive line.

Thanks for your help on the first two, really appreciated.

On the third one we were looking at the different wording of rule 9 between the u10 version he played last year and the u11 version for this year:-

u10s - rule 9:-
"...The ball is in play once the acting half touches the ball (the acting half cannot delay touching the ball)."


U11:- rule 9:-
"...The ball is in play once it is played backwards (there can be no delay in playing the ball backwards once the player has placed the ball on the ground)."

That seems to be a material difference and my son reckons that players will be used to standing over the ball and being safe until they touch it. He is thinking he can dive in as long as he is on side. Or is this just something in league where what is actually refereed doesn't match what is in the law book?

Sorry for the detail, my son loves this kind of stuff...

leaguerefaus
04-05-16, 12:05
Thanks for your help on the first two, really appreciated.

On the third one we were looking at the different wording of rule 9 between the u10 version he played last year and the u11 version for this year:-

u10s - rule 9:-
"...The ball is in play once the acting half touches the ball (the acting half cannot delay touching the ball)."


U11:- rule 9:-
"...The ball is in play once it is played backwards (there can be no delay in playing the ball backwards once the player has placed the ball on the ground)."

That seems to be a material difference and my son reckons that players will be used to standing over the ball and being safe until they touch it. He is thinking he can dive in as long as he is on side. Or is this just something in league where what is actually refereed doesn't match what is in the law book?

Sorry for the detail, my son loves this kind of stuff...
No need to apologise mate, always good to see some interest! The whole marker situation in league doesn't match the law book unfortunately! If there's a dummy half and he reaches around or dives in, he will be penalised at any level of the game. The international law book strictly forbids diving into the ruck when there is a dummy half.

ctrainor
04-05-16, 13:05
Dan_A when my son started playing RL as a junior, he played soccer in winter, I offered to help out reffing and was told I couldn't do it unless I was qualified.
I eventually went on a course which has qualified me to ref local RL games but he promptly packed in so never got to use it!
You may need a formal qualification before you start.

Dan_A
04-05-16, 13:05
At the moment I'm kind of just helping with coaching. The running/passing/tackling skills are pretty similar between the two codes at this age, it's just that I'm feeling a bit exposed when the kids ask law questions like the three above. This is especially annoying when it's my own son showing up his father's lack of detailed knowledge :hap: :norc:

Lee Lifeson-Peart
04-05-16, 17:05
Learn to shout this for 80 minutes non-stop (Hull accent optional) from the sidelines (whether your team are in possession or not is immaterial).

Geddim on saaaaaaaaaaaaad!!!!!

4eyesbetter
04-05-16, 19:05
2) If he is the marker and onside, when can he either play the man or the ball (we think it might be different from u10 to u11 - he's is looking to pounce on the ball if the dummy half is slow to pick it up)?


I'm far from a Primary expert, but on the few occasions I've done festivals: markers can now move when the ball is played; if he falls on the ball he will/should be penalised for a voluntary tackle; if the opponents are obviously not very good at playing the ball and picking up from acting half, and the acting half is consistently being caught in possession, he may well find that the markers will start to draw a lot of penalties for not square as the ref tries to give that team a chance to get the ball clear of the ruck and ensure that everyone's having fun. If he's bright enough to be asking those kinds of questions, he should also be bright enough to understand why people might do this.

What bit of the country are you in?

Dan_A
05-05-16, 10:05
I'm in South West London. I must admit I'm really impressed with the way League operates for Juniors. The round robin festival format is way better than the long drawn out all-dayers we have in Union (although that is changing with NROP next year apparently).

didds
05-05-16, 11:05
... and ahs already in some areas Dan ie the round robin, everybody maximises game time and gets home before Tuesday.

didds

Dan_A
05-05-16, 11:05
Interesting, Didds. Are you seeing fewer injuries? I really think that for older minis (u11/u12) the old format is a contributing factor to some of the injuries we are seeing. Lot's of hanging round means that players get cold (and tired) between games. The newer format of basically one game on then one game off, for say 3 or 4 games, then go home is MUCH better all round.

didds
05-05-16, 12:05
I don;t have that info Dan, sorry. I just know that in places like Hampshire these round robins formats have already been used.

Personally I was never a fan of the "old style" pool + QF+SF+F etc as it seemed to lead to ridiculously early starts, loads of non playing time, some interesting squad non-rotation by some coaches, and for those that progress especially a stupidly long day.

I've been at tournaments as a parent where some kids got 5 minutes playing time in 5 hours. That isn't a total fault of the tournament structure I'll grant, but that seemed to provide opportunities for some coaches to follow a policy that provided that. I soon refused to go, and if my children wanted to play despite this I'd make arrangements for their transportation

didds

Dan_A
05-05-16, 12:05
I don;t have that info Dan, sorry. I just know that in places like Hampshire these round robins formats have already been used.

Personally I was never a fan of the "old style" pool + QF+SF+F etc as it seemed to lead to ridiculously early starts, loads of non playing time, some interesting squad non-rotation by some coaches, and for those that progress especially a stupidly long day.

I've been at tournaments as a parent where some kids got 5 minutes playing time in 5 hours. That isn't a total fault of the tournament structure I'll grant, but that seemed to provide opportunities for some coaches to follow a policy that provided that.


Totally agree, I've seen plenty of that type of behaviour over the years!