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wrighty
07-06-16, 18:06
Attacker kicks the ball which unintentionally ricochets off a defender ,for example a forward still in the scrum . Ball travels into In goal and is touched down .Is it still a Scrum 5 , even though defender didn't intentionally send ball into his in goal ?

chbg
07-06-16, 20:06
Good question. My immediate response is "Yes", but it is difficult to quote a specific Law. Under 22.7(e) they are by convention deemed to have "put the ball into their own in-goal" - especially if it is a 'proper' ricochet. I was going to draw a similarity to a kick that touches the opposition - it puts all the kicker's team on-side. But that is an 'intentional' touch (11.3(c)), so no support for this example.

We have to draw a line somewhere on the continuum from a graze, through a ricochet, to an intentional fingertip. By convention any touch is counted - as it may well have altered the course of the ball, even by a smidgen (not defined).

Dixie
08-06-16, 09:06
There has been a very conscious effort over several years to standardise the treatment of lines, and balls crossing the line. So the same rule that applies to the touchline in terms of player astride the line touching the ball in play also applies to the 22, the goal line and the DBL.

With that in mind, it seems reasonable to ask how we would treat the throw-in if the ball had gone into touch instead of in-goal. The answer is that the unintentional touch/graze/ricochet would be considered material and would affect the restart. I think the same applies here. 5m scrum rather than 22m dropout.

Taff
08-06-16, 13:06
... We have to draw a line somewhere on the continuum from a graze, through a ricochet, to an intentional fingertip. By convention any touch is counted - as it may well have altered the course of the ball, even by a smidgen (not defined).
The definitions say that "the ball is played when it is touched by a player". It doesn't say anything about intentional or not.

Pinky
13-06-16, 23:06
I'd say good kick by the attacker and award the scrum 5