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Bomber
19-07-16, 15:07
Hi Question

if the non throwing hooker has to stand within the 5 metre line can he be the front lifter, even if he standing within the 5 metre line.

___2 4 3
2 < throwing hooker

2= non throwing hooker, 4 = jumper 3= other lifter


non throwing hooker is inside the 5 metre line can he lift 4 (how stands at position 1) with 3 as a defensive lineout?

FlipFlop
19-07-16, 15:07
No.

The non-throwing hooker must be 2m away form the line of touch and 2m from the 5m line. He cannot lift.
http://laws.worldrugby.org/images/laws/lineout-en.png

Pegleg
19-07-16, 17:07
Logically (since the law is silent on him):

19.11 PLAYER THROWING-IN
There are four options available to the player throwing in:
(a) The thrower may stay within 5 metres of the touchline.
(b) The thrower may retire to the offside line 10 metres behind the line of touch.
(c) The thrower may join the lineout as soon as the ball has been thrown in.
(d) The thrower may move into the receiver position if that position is empty. If the thrower
goes anywhere else, the thrower is offside.
Sanction: Penalty kick on the 15-metre line

applies to the Non throwing hooker as well.

So IF he can cover the distance from his 2 X 2 position to get into a position to lift (highy unlikely of course), why not? OR can he only join IF the throwing in hooker joins due to "numbers"?

DocY
19-07-16, 18:07
Isn't the loosly-enforced 2m from the 5m line law there to stop him interfering? If he came in to lift, I'd give the free kick for him being in the wrong place.

chbg
19-07-16, 21:07
Logically (since the law is silent on him) he is given the same responsibilities as other 'participating players'. Unlike for the thrower-in, there is specifically no exemption for him e.g. to retire to the off-side line 10m back.

Presumably the requirement to have a player (not necessarily the hooker, but that is the accepted short-hand) between touch and the 5m line is a small measure to free-up the rest of the pitch from defencers.

Referees need to be particularly aware to enforce the requirement in 7s.

Pegleg
19-07-16, 22:07
Doing it that way, you allow the thowing in hooker to join the line out, after he's thrown it, but not the non throwing hooker. That forces an imbalance. Of course he can join any subsequent ruck or maul that seems unfair.

Ian_Cook
19-07-16, 23:07
The non-throwing hooker only has to remain in position until the ball has left the thrower's hands, although he can exchage places with another player in the lineout before its thrown.

After the ball has left the thrower's hands, he can ago anywhere he likes with the limits of the Laws that apply to other participating players. He can

join the line-out
go into the receiver position if there is no receiver

If he is quick enough to act as a lifter after the ball is thrown, good luck to him. If it is thrown beyond the front of the line-out, his name would probably need to be Usain Bolt to do that successfully!

Pegleg
20-07-16, 08:07
So just to be clear Ian:

These two are in or out for you?

19.11 PLAYER THROWING-IN
There are four options available to the player throwing in:
(a) The thrower may stay within 5 metres of the touchline.
(b) The thrower may retire to the offside line 10 metres behind the line of touch.


c & d we agree are ok.

chbg
20-07-16, 10:07
He can do (a), because 19.10(i): when the ball has been thrown beyond a player in the lineout, he may move to the space between the touchline and 5m line. So this area is not 'out of bounds' to participating players.

He cannot do (b), because 19.14(e): no player participating in the lineout may leave it until it has ended (except the thrower-in under the exception of 19.11, but let's not yet again argue about law writing).

Pegleg
20-07-16, 11:07
Law writing is important. To ignore it is to leave yourself open.

Ian_Cook
20-07-16, 12:07
He can do (a), because 19.10(i): when the ball has been thrown beyond a player in the lineout, he may move to the space between the touchline and 5m line. So this area is not 'out of bounds' to participating players.

He cannot do (b), because 19.14(e): no player participating in the lineout may leave it until it has ended (except the thrower-in under the exception of 19.11, but let's not yet again argue about law writing).

Well the OP's question was about lifting/joining in the line-out, so that is what I was answering, but yes, the player opposing the thrower must surely be able to do anything the thrower can do because they are both "Participating Players".