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Christy
27-07-16, 19:07
Hi all
A question if i may.

Blue playing red.
Tackle middle field . Blue tackles red .
Red go to ground & places ball back .
New Blue opponent latches on to new red ( all on feet & forms ruck )

1 more blue & red also join ruck .
Field is a bit mucky , & not by any fowling the ruck collapses .

Ball is still behind red .( not out , out )
Another Blue opponent from his side , aproaches his mates ruck from behind his team mates & straight behind line of ball .
He goes through lads on floor ( does not step on them )
And picks up ball & runs towards red goal line .

Play on or blow whistle .
And could you explain your decision .
( my view penalty against blue )

Decorily
27-07-16, 20:07
Christy, I think the question is did the Blue player come through the ruck or over the top....then again is there a ruck.

Why do you feel it is penalty to Red?

Can of worms anyone!!

EDITED

Christy
27-07-16, 21:07
Hi decorily.
I would encorage blue to not come through .
Its still a ruck , and blue coming through is not bound & he cant bind as his team mates are on floor .

I would advise red 9 , use it now please .
If not used , i beleive re start with scrum , & team in possesion put ball in ? .

Taff
27-07-16, 22:07
... Why do you feel it is penalty to Red?
I assume because he considers Red to be handling in the ruck. :chin:

Camquin
27-07-16, 22:07
Behind Red suggests it might be out.
If the ball is clearly out, then the ruck is over, play on.

If the ball is not clearly out, then we have not got the conditions for a successful end to the ruck
But if there is nobody the newly arriving player can legally bind onto, is there still a ruck?
So we have a zombie.

I believe we have discussed this before.
I do not believe we reached a conclusion.

Decorily
27-07-16, 22:07
I assume because he considers Red to be handling in the ruck. :chin:
Maybe..but not if there is no ruck. OP describes ruck as having collapsed.

Decorily
27-07-16, 22:07
Hi decorily.
I would encorage blue to not come through .
Its still a ruck , and blue coming through is not bound & he cant bind as his team mates are on floor .

I would advise red 9 , use it now please .
If not used , i beleive re start with scrum , & team in possesion put ball in ? .

Refresh yourself on scrum restarts and who puts in after becoming unplayable and not been used after being told to use it.

The Fat
27-07-16, 23:07
If the ball is still in, the ruck has not ended i.e. It is still a ruck. If blue walks through the middle and picks the ball up he is offside.
If a ruck has collapsed and red SH can't pull the ball out and use it, blow it up for unplayable, red going forward, red scrum

I should have added that the blue player should be managed in the first instance before he gets to the ball. A loud call of "No Blue" or similar as he starts to move through the ruck

Drift
28-07-16, 00:07
Maybe..but not if there is no ruck. OP describes ruck as having collapsed.

Still a ruck if the ball is in there.

OB..
28-07-16, 01:07
Still a ruck if the ball is in there.
Clarification 3 of 2007
Request
1. A ruck is formed and the ball is playable for Team A. All players in Team B now leave the ruck and step back. Is there still a ruck or has the ruck ended?

Ruling in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
A ruck ends successfully when the ball leaves the ruck or when the ball enters in goal i.e. on or over the goal line.

A ruck ends unsuccessfully when the ball becomes unplayable.


As there has been a ruck formed initially, AND the criteria for a successful or unsuccessful ruck have not been exhibited, then the ruck has not ended.

Ian_Cook
28-07-16, 02:07
If the ball is still in, the ruck has not ended i.e. It is still a ruck. If blue walks through the middle and picks the ball up he is offside.
If a ruck has collapsed and red SH can't pull the ball out and use it, blow it up for unplayable, red going forward, red scrum

I should have added that the blue player should be managed in the first instance before he gets to the ball. A loud call of "No Blue" or similar as he starts to move through the ruck


THIS!

I had a similar question in another forum


Did anyone else notice on one of the breakdown calls against the Brumbies the reff explains his decision and says that you can't go through the ruck when the ruck is collapsed... WTF is that, first time i've heard this term. Stephen Moore rightly asks for a proper explanation for the penalty call but the reff sticks by his call and description. I've typed it in google and it seems to come up a few times in Super Rugby searches. Is this a SANZAAR directive or something? Seems to be a little bit dim witted.

and my answer was pretty much what The Fat has said here, except I went into some Law detail


Well he is correct.

Once a ruck is formed, there are only two ways it can end...

LAW 16.6 SUCCESSFUL END TO A RUCK
A ruck ends successfully when the ball leaves the ruck, or when the ball is on or over the goal line.

LAW 16.7 UNSUCCESSFUL END TO A RUCK
(a) A ruck ends unsuccessfully when the ball becomes unplayable and a scrum is ordered.


Specifically, a ruck does NOT end just because there are no longer any players on their feet. The ruck continues (and the offside lines remain). If a player steps through the ruck, he is advancing beyond the ruck offside line.

Dixie
28-07-16, 09:07
If the ball is still in, the ruck has not ended i.e. It is still a ruck. If blue walks through the middle and picks the ball up he is offside.
If a ruck has collapsed and red SH can't pull the ball out and use it, blow it up for unplayable, red going forward, red scrum

I should have added that the blue player should be managed in the first instance before he gets to the ball. A loud call of "No Blue" or similar as he starts to move through the ruck

This +1

Paule23
28-07-16, 23:07
This +1
+2....