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CrouchTPEngage
29-08-16, 12:08
I'm about to ref my first game with the new laws and have read the "guidance and priorities" emails.
I was taught to create a "mental model" in my mind of game situations : How and when, I would detect offences under 20.12(c) i.e. "This scrum-half may not move into the space between the flanker and No. 8 when following the ball through the scrum". But I'm struggling.

So I thought I'd try to simplify this to a pre-match briefing to No.9s to remind them to simply, "not go past the Flanker". But is this right ?

If the scrum wheels towards No.9 (who didnt put in ), Its going to be hard for him to NOT step past the flanker. ?
I guess the motivation behind the amendment was to allow scrums to complete "cleanly" and to stop opps No.9 from interfering with the ball ( and No. 8) as it emerges.

Anyone else had experience of this new amendment ? It certainly didn't appear to be policed in the Level 2 game I watched the other day ?
Any advice ? Ta

Dickie E
29-08-16, 12:08
its about preventing the SH moving into the gap between flanker & #8. Provided both feet stay behind ball, SH can follow around the outside. We've had this law all season and I've never seen a need to apply it.

Dixie
30-08-16, 14:08
Hi CTPE.

More often than not, there is a "pocket" between the flanker and his 2nd row. This is the space that #9 loves to get into, and which he will be penalised for entering this season. If the #9 can get behind the flanker's feet while remaining behind the ball that's improbable but fine - but he mustn't then enter the pocket, even if the scum goes backward and the ball moves back toward the centre.

If you do decide to include this in the briefing, most #9's will recognise the terminology of the "pocket" in my experience.

Christy
30-08-16, 16:08
its about preventing the SH moving into the gap between flanker & #8. Provided both feet stay behind ball, SH can follow around the outside. We've had this law all season and I've never seen a need to apply it.

i thinkk dickie e answer explains perfectly .
one thing ive learnt as a new referee , is keep briefings simple .
depending on age group . maybe manage on field rather than over talk in changing room

mark.lucas
06-09-16, 22:09
i thinkk dickie e answer explains perfectly .
one thing ive learnt as a new referee , is keep briefings simple .
depending on age group . maybe manage on field rather than over talk in changing room

Totally agree with keeping briefs short and simple - have a well rehearsed brief and stick to it - but welcome questions at the end.

And you should be so lucky as to have changing rooms - here in the USA in two years I haven't reffed a club match where there was a changing room. OK the private schools have them, but they are only a small percentage of matches.

There simply isn't the concept of sports clubs having their own clubhouse over here.

So lovely two hour drives home, unshowered, after reffing in 30C+ - often doing the B team match and then the A team straight afterwards - so pretty much 4 hours on the park.

Guyseep
07-09-16, 14:09
I usually keep it simple and in the pre-match briefing tell the SH to stay an arms length away from the scrum.

DocY
07-09-16, 14:09
I usually keep it simple and in the pre-match briefing tell the SH to stay an arms length away from the scrum.

I'd be cautious about doing that - I'm not sure you'd have much recourse if either SH decided to ignore you and you'd have the other one shouting "Sir, you said...".

crossref
07-09-16, 14:09
There simply isn't the concept of sports clubs having their own clubhouse over here.


are there no sports facilities owned by the Town, or local authority that they can use ?

Over here there are many, many small clubs that play on council-owned playing fields, sharing changing rooms and similar facilities with other clubs, and other sports. They pay a match fee to rent the pitch, and use the facilities. Also might be used by colleges, and lower teams of clubs with only one or two pitches.

(there is a rarely a bar, mind --- but you do get shower)

OB..
07-09-16, 15:09
are there no sports facilities owned by the Town, or local authority that they can use ?

Over here there are many, many small clubs that play on council-owned playing fields, sharing changing rooms and similar facilities with other clubs, and other sports. They pay a match fee to rent the pitch, and use the facilities. Also might be used by colleges, and lower teams of clubs with only one or two pitches.

(there is a rarely a bar, mind --- but you do get shower)When I played in Maryland in the 1970s we had a pitch provided by the local council, but no other facilities. We had an agreement with a local bar to use its basement for beer and food, but there were no changing facilities. That was typical of the clubs we played. When I was back there around 1990 not much had changed.

Phil E
07-09-16, 15:09
If I don't get bathrobe, slippers and nice fluffy towels they can find their own referee.
We expect high standards of our clubs in Staffs!

Guyseep
08-09-16, 15:09
I'd be cautious about doing that - I'm not sure you'd have much recourse if either SH decided to ignore you and you'd have the other one shouting "Sir, you said...".

I't rarely becomes a problem, and I've only ever used it when an aggressive opposing scrum half either enters that flanker/8 pocket, or they have hands all over the opposing scrum, usually the flanker or 8 in order to disrupt and annoy the opposing scrum. In practice as long as they aren't touching the opposing scrum as the ball makes its way back I don't have an issue.

If they ask for a justification I cite either the new offside law 20.12(c), specifically not being allowed in the pocket, or general scrum safety as interfering with the opposing scrum can destabilize it and make it unsafe.