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View Full Version : Is It Still Legal To Kick The Ball Out Of A Ruck?



Taff
16-09-16, 21:09
I've seen about 3 TV games so far this season - as it happened, two of which were reffed by Nigel Whitehouse.

In both games he has given PKs against players for kicking the ball out of the ruck; the commentators have mentioned that it's a new law.

The problem is I can't find anything in the list of law changes that says it's illegal to kick the ball out of a ruck. Am I missing something here? :chin:

Christy
16-09-16, 22:09
I've seen about 3 TV games so far this season - as it happened, two of which were reffed by Nigel Whitehouse.

In both games he has given PKs against players for kicking the ball out of the ruck; the commentators have mentioned that it's a new law.

The problem is I can't find anything in the list of law changes that says it's illegal to kick the ball out of a ruck. Am I missing something here? :chin:

Hi taff.
We were advised
If a ruck goes to ground , non ball side can not walk through players and pick up ball or kick ball.
The team side who has ball at their disposal will be told use it or loose it,
However if tackle only , they can go through & kick ( providing kick is not in area of player head on floor ).

Noy sure if it in law , but it is im sure a directive from world rugby.
Ill see if i can find something on it for you .
( remember england full back , is it brown ? Against ireland in i think last years 6 nations , he put boot to head a few times )

The Fat
16-09-16, 22:09
I've seen about 3 TV games so far this season - as it happened, two of which were reffed by Nigel Whitehouse.

In both games he has given PKs against players for kicking the ball out of the ruck; the commentators have mentioned that it's a new law.

The problem is I can't find anything in the list of law changes that says it's illegal to kick the ball out of a ruck. Am I missing something here? :chin:

Haven't seen the games you reference however, if a ruck has gone to ground and a player (even though entering from his side), comes "through the middle" and kicks the ball (or plays the ball, except the SH of the team in possession), he is penalised for being offside. That is, the ruck, although collapsed, is still a ruck and he has not joined legally by binding to another player in the ruck. Therefore he is now in front of last feet and is offside.
Did you notice what secondary signal the referee gave? I think you will find he gave the "offside" signal.
Not a new law, just correct application of existing laws.

This is how it is described in our GMGs;

Ball out and collapsed ruck
• Players cannot step through or over the middle of a collapsed ruck before the ball is cleared or the ball is completely clear of bodies. These players are unbound and in front of the last feet and are therefore offside.

Pegleg
16-09-16, 23:09
Nigel Whitehouse making a comeback? Bit old now surely!

ctrainor
17-09-16, 08:09
Saw this in the Ulster game last night gaff, Scarlett's player for me was bound part of the ruck and perfectly entitled to play the ball as he did.

Taff
17-09-16, 22:09
Nigel Whitehouse making a comeback? Bit old now surely!
Bugger. I meant Ben Whitehouse - his boy. :redface:


Saw this in the Ulster game last night [T]aff, Scarlett's player for me was bound part of the ruck and perfectly entitled to play the ball as he did.
This was one of the games I was referring to. He had another game a week or so ago and must have given about 5 PKs for kicking the ball out of the ruck.

DocY
18-09-16, 09:09
The directive as translated down to my level is:

A player can kick the ball if he's bound into the ruck, he's not being reckless (i.e. likely to kick anyone) and the SH doesn't have his hands on the ball.

I've seen the last bit penalised at least once this season - could well be one of the incidents you saw.

I don't think it's actually a new law, but IMO it's something that should already have been penalisable under 'being a dick'. Especially when Mike Brown did it!

Christy
18-09-16, 14:09
Bugger. I meant Ben Whitehouse - his boy. :redface:


This was one of the games I was referring to. He had another game a week or so ago and must have given about 5 PKs for kicking the ball out of the ruck.

Hi taff , i no good at this type of thing.
But could we see about getting it up , so we could look at it .

Pegleg
18-09-16, 16:09
The directive as translated down to my level is:

A player can kick the ball if he's bound into the ruck, he's not being reckless (i.e. likely to kick anyone) and the SH doesn't have his hands on the ball.

I've seen the last bit penalised at least once this season - could well be one of the incidents you saw.

I don't think it's actually a new law, but IMO it's something that should already have been penalisable under 'being a dick'. Especially when Mike Brown did it!

I'd go with that. The act itself is not illegal. However, context may make it dangerous.

Rich_NL
19-09-16, 10:09
I don't think it's actually a new law, but IMO it's something that should already have been penalisable under 'being a dick'. Especially when Mike Brown did it!

The uncharitable might suggest that if there were such a law, Mike Brown might be permanently suspended.

Lee Lifeson-Peart
19-09-16, 11:09
I must say this passed me by.

I had an instance on Saturday where a player did similar (although there were issues of the direction he come into the tackle area) albeit there was never a ruck formed and he kicked it - ball was released by tackled player and I didn't see it as dangerous. I played on and if all the above refers to collapsed rucks then I assume I was correct to do so. That said given what I said in the first paragraph I'd have probably allowed it if a ruck had formed.

DocY
21-09-16, 12:09
Turns out there was an official clarification:

http://laws.worldrugby.org/?domain=10&clarlaw=15&clarification=1016


The designated members agree that it is illegal to kick the ball out of the hands of a player in possession in any circumstances

Paule23
22-09-16, 22:09
I understood you can kick the ball out, but only if you are correctly bound into the ruck, and it is not dangerous I.e. You are not kicking
Out of hands or near heads.

The instructions this year are to prevent dangerous play, but also to penalise people who are clearly not bound into the ruck. Someone who comes through the middle or a collapsed ruck and is able to kick a ball is highly unlikely to be bound correctly, so is therefore offside.

Pegleg
26-09-16, 22:09
I spoke to Ben tonight. He says he's got a few of them wrong so far. The general view here is the WRU's stance:

Not bound leave well alone. Properly bound play the ball with your feet with due care.