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View Full Version : [Law] Penalty 'at a lineout'



crossref
30-10-16, 20:10
The Law says
b) Lineout alternative. A team awarded a penalty or a free kick at a lineout may choose a further lineout into which they throw in. This is in addition to the scrum option.

So White have an attacking line out 5m from Black goal line ethey set up a maul, move away from the LoT, so the lineout is over, and Black collapse the maul

Ref gives a PK and White ask for the lineout alternative

Do they get it?

OB..
30-10-16, 21:10
The Law says
b) Lineout alternative. A team awarded a penalty or a free kick at a lineout may choose a further lineout into which they throw in. This is in addition to the scrum option.

So White have an attacking line out 5m from Black goal line ethey set up a maul, move away from the LoT, so the lineout is over, and Black collapse the maul

Ref gives a PK and White ask for the lineout alternative

Do they get it?You said the lineout was over, therefore the PK was not awarded at a lineout.
(Where did you think the lineout would be?)

crossref
30-10-16, 22:10
Well, it was interesting when this happened in exeter v Bath.
Time had expired.
Bath were 4 points behind and attacking, Exeter gave away a PK and Bath kicked for the corner, had a lineout, Exeter collapsed the maul.. and that was it, no more lineouts, so a very effective defence by Exeter.
Bath had to opt for a scrum

Taff
30-10-16, 22:10
Well, it was interesting when this happened in exeter v Bath. Time had expired. Bath were 4 points behind and attacking, Exeter gave away a PK and Bath kicked for the corner, had a lineout, Exeter collapsed the maul.. and that was it, no more lineouts, so a very effective defence by Exeter.
Why didn't Bath have a PK for Exeter collapsing the Maul - and a possible penalty Try?

crossref
30-10-16, 23:10
They were awarded a PK
They opted for a lineout, the ref said this option was not available, as the offence hadn't happened at a lineout
They couldn't kick for touch again, as time had expired
They chose a scrum

Dickie E
30-10-16, 23:10
if they wanted a maul they could have taken a tap kick and set up a maul.

Pegleg
31-10-16, 08:10
Well, it was interesting when this happened in exeter v Bath.
Time had expired.
Bath were 4 points behind and attacking, Exeter gave away a PK and Bath kicked for the corner, had a lineout, Exeter collapsed the maul.. and that was it, no more lineouts, so a very effective defence by Exeter.
Bath had to opt for a scrum

Ref was correct. Line out option only available if the line out is still "live".

Bath did not have to opt for a scrum at all.

Not sure where the ides that the defence was "effective" comes from. As stated above a maul can be created folowing a "tap and go". At least there is no danger of them losing the the line out this way. So bath get their maul with little risk.

crossref
31-10-16, 09:10
Not sure where the ides that the defence was "effective" comes from. As stated above a maul can be created folowing a "tap and go". At least there is no danger of them losing the the line out this way. So bath get their maul with little risk.

but we rarely - never? see a tap-and-maul, do we?
teams prefer to kick it out an have a lineout-and-maul

Pegleg
31-10-16, 11:10
Yes we do. Teams often tap a go and then a pod of forwards set up a maul. This will usually happen infield I grant you. Furthermore, the option is there for them to set up a new maul and possibly "buy" a PT. So I can't see what you think constituted "effective defence" over and above any other conceding of a penalty.

TheBFG
31-10-16, 15:10
took scrum, the rest is history :biggrin: Roko for England!

crossref
31-10-16, 16:10
took scrum, the rest is history :biggrin: Roko for England!

it was a very exciting last ten minutes!

Lancsbarts
01-11-16, 16:11
Thought the law had changed that a kick for touch following a penalty was now available even if time had expired...???

Phil E
01-11-16, 17:11
I think your getting confused.

The lineout is awarded when the ball crosses the touchline. Not when the lineout takes place.
So if they kick into touch and the clock runs out one second later, the lineout still takes place.

But if the clock runs out and THEN they kick for touch (penalty or otherwise), game over.

Also

If they are awarded a penalty in a lineout, they can take another lineout instead of the penalty, without the need to kick it into touch. So in that case they could have the lineout (instead of the penalty) after the clock had run dead.

DocY
01-11-16, 17:11
Thought the law had changed that a kick for touch following a penalty was now available even if time had expired...???

They're trialling that in the SH, but it's not the case here (yet).

Kind of sensible, but has resulted in silly situations where the team awarded the PK want to end the game, so they take a quick tap before kicking for touch.

chbg
01-11-16, 20:11
I trialled it here too, thankfully in a pre-season friendly. Didn't go down well. But got it out of my thinking. After that I decided to ignore reading about SH experiments.

Lancsbarts
10-11-16, 16:11
Ah, that's where I'm getting confused then, seeing in in the Super Rugby / Rugby Championship this summer. Leave as is for now then...