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KML1
13-11-16, 16:11
..Only came onto market a few weeks ago, but World Rugby says "no"! (or to be accurate: "No. not yet!")

http://rugbyreferee.net/2016/11/13/n-pro-headguard-banned-until-world-rugby-assessment-can-be-completed
3477

Not Kurt Weaver
14-11-16, 00:11
TBH can't see anything wrong with headgear in picture.

My guess is the WR gears were not greased sufficiently.

Pegleg
14-11-16, 09:11
Or the required testing has not been concluded yet.

Phil E
14-11-16, 11:11
The manufacturers make some fairly bold claims. I suspect World Rugby wants to evaluate those claims before they approve it (and therefore appear to agree with the claims?)


"With this in mind, N-Pro has built a headguard specifically to help prevent medical issues arising from forceful collisions. In particular, the makers of the headguard claim it can protect rugby players from concussion by reducing 'G-force' energy that's transferred into a player's head."


http://www.wired.co.uk/article/npro-rugby-concussion-safe-head-guard

didds
14-11-16, 11:11
my initial thought was the manufacturer's don't understand/haven't investigated the requirements for use within rugby before marketing this.

Or cynically just selling it in the hope that players etc don't know it needs a WR logo.

didds

chbg
14-11-16, 12:11
If you are prepared to pay Euro150 based only on a manufacturer's claim then you need some protection (from yourself).

Wert Twacky
14-11-16, 12:11
An email from RFU HQ was sent to all Societies on Friday about this and I suspect WR's current stance has everything to do with those claims about concussion.

Rich_NL
14-11-16, 15:11
WR Regulations for headgear:
3.4.1 Impact Attenuation - When tested in accordance with the procedures specified in Section 4.3 (head drop test),the peak acceleration of impacts delivered to test locations shall not be less than 200g.

So current regulations possibly disqualify it for being *too* protective. I'm not sure what the logic is, presumably they were discouraging the development of protective helmets that endanger other players.

There's also a stipulation of the padding being homogeneous that may not be met. In any case, it's unlikely they'd approve something that doesn't meet their specifications without a lot of testing, if only for liability issues if it turns out to make things worse.

Paule23
14-11-16, 18:11
It's quite worrying the amount of people who think a scrum cap protects against concussion and head injury. I try to educate where I can but I'm definitely fighting a losing battle. It appears the marketing for this one is not going to help my crusade!

Pinky
14-11-16, 18:11
Conventional "wisdom" is that a head guard may protect against soft tissue injury, eg having ear torn or scalp cut, but does not protect against concussion.

crossref
14-11-16, 19:11
it's an interesting challenge for WR. I don't see how they can ban it on the grounds that the claims made are unsupported. A manufacturer might claim that a headguard is waterproof, or comfortable, or keeps you cool, or keeps you warm, or has amazing wicking properties, or smells nice.... I don't think anyone would suggest that by allowing people to wear it, WR were endorsing those claims.

SimonSmith
15-11-16, 00:11
Given that for it to be wearable, it must have the WR logo, I absolutely can see how people could make that claim

crossref
15-11-16, 08:11
Given that for it to be wearable, it must have the WR logo, I absolutely can see how people could make that claim

That's a myth isn't it.
I don't think any head guard has the Worldrugby logo on it.
Photo?

Paule23
15-11-16, 12:11
Conventional "wisdom" is that a head guard may protect against soft tissue injury, eg having ear torn or scalp cut, but does not protect against concussion.

Coventional wisdom amongst whom? The majority of player and parents I speak to believe they help prevent concussion, and players wear them for this purpose, not to prevent cuts etc.

Pinky
15-11-16, 13:11
Coventional wisdom amongst whom? The majority of player and parents I speak to believe they help prevent concussion, and players wear them for this purpose, not to prevent cuts etc.

Scottish Rugby, amongst others (there are academic research papers that support this). You've presumably not had the "if in doubt, sit them out" session at your society meeting yet!

SimonSmith
15-11-16, 14:11
That's a myth isn't it.
I don't think any head guard has the Worldrugby logo on it.
Photo?
https://assets.usarugby.org/docs/refereeing/protective-equipment-clothing-guidelines.pdf

Bottom page 11

crossref
15-11-16, 14:11
https://assets.usarugby.org/docs/refereeing/protective-equipment-clothing-guidelines.pdf

Bottom page 11

am I missing something? - none of the three headguards featured on p11 actually have a worldrugby logo ?

can anyone see a logo anywhere here?
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rugby+headguard+360+view&safe=active&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjm853_8KrQAhWDXRQKHW2rD2EQ7AkILQ&biw=1280&bih=939#safe=active&tbm=isch&q=rugby+headguard+

MrQeu
15-11-16, 15:11
am I missing something? - none of the three headguards featured on p11 actually have a worldrugby logo ?

can anyone see a logo anywhere here?
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rugby+headguard+360+view&safe=active&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjm853_8KrQAhWDXRQKHW2rD2EQ7AkILQ&biw=1280&bih=939#safe=active&tbm=isch&q=rugby+headguard+

http://www.lovell-rugby.co.uk/products/14165.jpg

Phil E
15-11-16, 15:11
3479

The logo is on the clothing label (inside with the washing instructions, etc.)

didds
15-11-16, 15:11
Coventional wisdom amongst whom? The majority of player and parents I speak to believe they help prevent concussion, and players wear them for this purpose, not to prevent cuts etc.

FFS!!! (not aimed at Paule23!)



didds

Paule23
16-11-16, 21:11
Scottish Rugby, amongst others (there are academic research papers that support this). You've presumably not had the "if in doubt, sit them out" session at your society meeting yet!

Definitely had if in doubt......not sure what relevance that is to scrum caps.

Could you direct me to the literature which supports scrum caps reducing risk of concussion?

Paule23
16-11-16, 21:11
FFS!!! (not aimed at Paule23!)



Phew....

Pinky
17-11-16, 17:11
Definitely had if in doubt......not sure what relevance that is to scrum caps.

Could you direct me to the literature which supports scrum caps reducing risk of concussion?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19127196 as an example. There was also a 2014 article in the Telegraph.

Paule23
17-11-16, 23:11
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19127196 as an example. There was also a 2014 article in the Telegraph.

That study says "Padded headgear does not reduce the rate of head injury or concussion." Which supports what I was saying. Have I misinterpreted, I thought you were suggesting there are scientific studies which show headgear reducing concussion.

Camquin
18-11-16, 01:11
In order to do anything useful it would need to compress over enough time to reduce the acceleration.
A bit like a crumple zone in a car.
An in designing a crumple zone taking material out can improve performance.

Oddly head gear that is WR compliant is not physically compliant enough to have sufficient effect.
Which would suggest a thicker but softer, technically more compliant, headgear might be effective.
Perhaps like the new paper bike helmet.
The question is how large and soft would it have to be to have any real effect.

Paule23
18-11-16, 11:11
In order to do anything useful it would need to compress over enough time to reduce the acceleration.
A bit like a crumple zone in a car.
An in designing a crumple zone taking material out can improve performance.

Oddly head gear that is WR compliant is not physically compliant enough to have sufficient effect.
Which would suggest a thicker but softer, technically more compliant, headgear might be effective.
Perhaps like the new paper bike helmet.
The question is how large and soft would it have to be to have any real effect.

Too large and too soft to be practical in rugby, and after a single blow it would need replacing.

You only need to look at the number of concussions in American Football, with full helmets, to know headgear is not an effective way to minimise the risk of concussion. I think we need to stamp hard on any myths amongst players, officials, parents etc that scrum caps can protect against concussion, and then focus on coaching and enforcement of dangerous tackle laws rather than pinning hopes on protective equipment.