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Shelflife
05-02-17, 21:02
Had a game today, Red awarded a pen , I make a mark and they kick for touch. In kicking for touch the kicker goes well past the mark and sneaks an extra metre. I have a quick word and tell him not to steal extra metres .

2nd kick he does the same thing long run up and well past the mark, I make it clear to him that it's through the mark from now on . Not worried too much about materiality as the kicks are centre of the pitch.

3rd kick he does the same, I blow my whistle and give a free kick. So was I right ?

I felt it it didn't deserve a full pen , but thought he was pushing it too far and it needed to be stopped.

didds
05-02-17, 21:02
seems fair and reasonable to me Shelflife. Maybe (?) a scrum was the correct response, but equally he has disobeyed a reasonable request by the ref (ie you) so ask-tell-penalise could haver seen arguably a PK.

FKs are bloody pointless mostly anyway. (not that that makes you wrong :-)

didds

tim White
05-02-17, 22:02
If the extra metre or two 'doesn't make any difference' take it a metre or two behind the mark then. Option two is to make your mark a metre or two behind ready for him.:knuppel2:

Taff
05-02-17, 23:02
.. 3rd kick he does the same, I blow my whistle and give a free kick. So was I right? I felt it it didn't deserve a full pen , but thought he was pushing it too far and it needed to be stopped.
I think the exact wording is "Any infringement by the kicker results in an opposition scrum at the Mark."

Rushforth
06-02-17, 00:02
I had the same happen - once - today. It wasn't material, so I didn't do anything, but I did say not to do it again.

ATP - Ask, Tell, Penalty. This needn't be three steps, and if you are ok with the PK being an FK (it often doesn't matter) then fine. BUT, if you have both asked and told a team - never mind a single player - to not do certain things, then you can go all the way to a penalty as far as I am concerned.

Nigib
06-02-17, 01:02
Had a game today, Red awarded a pen , I make a mark and they kick for touch. In kicking for touch the kicker goes well past the mark and sneaks an extra metre. I have a quick word and tell him not to steal extra metres .

2nd kick he does the same thing long run up and well past the mark, I make it clear to him that it's through the mark from now on . Not worried too much about materiality as the kicks are centre of the pitch.

3rd kick he does the same, I blow my whistle and give a free kick. So was I right ?

I felt it it didn't deserve a full pen , but thought he was pushing it too far and it needed to be stopped.

I find it not uncommon that the kicker uses my mark as a starting, rather than end, point. I'll remind them as I make the mark, "there's your mark, no further than that please..." next time, and escalate if appropriate - never had to.

Drift
06-02-17, 03:02
Watching the 6N at the weekend, seems all kickers are taking somewhat up to 4-5m over the marks when kicking for touch. It's a little thing but it's becoming frustrating to watch at the highest level.

DocY
06-02-17, 09:02
3rd kick he does the same, I blow my whistle and give a free kick. So was I right ?

I felt it it didn't deserve a full pen , but thought he was pushing it too far and it needed to be stopped.

In law, I don't think you were. An incorrectly taken penalty is a scrum to the opposition and repeated or intentional infringing is a PK. I can see the thinking behind giving a FK, but I'd expect an assessor to mark you down.

TheBFG
06-02-17, 10:02
Must have been something in the air, I had the same on Saturday, FH went well past the mark, I told him at the LO not to take the piss, he did the same at the next one, Peep, Scrum to the other side, he didn't do it again :wink:

Martin Doughty
06-02-17, 12:02
I regularly see this one. First time I have a quite word with the kicker. Next PK/FK I remind him about where the mark is and not to overstep it. If he does then it is an scrum with an opposition put in "Kicker, you just kicked the ball from <there>, the mark is back <here>".
It is Law 21.3 (b) "Sanction: Any infringement by the kicker’s team results in a scrum at the mark. The opposing team throws in the ball."

Shelflife
06-02-17, 14:02
Thanks for the feedback lads. I wasnt sure whether it was a scrum or a free kick as theres nothing specific in law for taking it from the wrong place.

I felt that 21.3.b was specific to that infringement of bouncing it on your knee but im happy to take it as that going forward.

crossref
06-02-17, 14:02
Thanks for the feedback lads. I wasnt sure whether it was a scrum or a free kick as theres nothing specific in law for taking it from the wrong place.
.

well, the odd thing is -- it is covered and there is no sanction


(c)
If a quickly taken penalty kick or free kick is taken from the wrong place the referee will order the kick to be taken again.


but in practice I agree with the posts above - A/T/P and I'd order a scrum

DocY
06-02-17, 14:02
Thanks for the feedback lads. I wasnt sure whether it was a scrum or a free kick as theres nothing specific in law for taking it from the wrong place.

I felt that 21.3.b was specific to that infringement of bouncing it on your knee but im happy to take it as that going forward.

21.4 is the one you want to look at (at the bottom):

Sanction: Unless otherwise stated in Law any infringement by the kickerís team results in a scrum at the mark. The opposing team throw in the ball.


Yes, you could argue that taking it from the wrong place is already covered, but that's supposed to only cover quick penalties (when it's not always immediately clear where the mark is and penalising it would be unduly harsh) and if you'd already told him not to do it, there has to be some sort of sanction.