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L'irlandais
10-08-17, 11:08
Interesting website seen on Robbie's twitter : (Ross Hanbury)UK

World Rugby, along with many world rugby Unions, Federations and Referee’s Societies use the ‘YOYO intermittent recovery test level 1″, to assess the fitness levels of its members across all levels.
The YoYo test*is similar to the ‘bleep test’ requiring participants to run between two cones, each 20 metres apart. However the YoYo builds in*a 10 second rest after the return*20 metre run. Just like the bleep test, the speed at which the 2 x 20 metre runs must be completed at increases progressively too, until the participant can no longer complete the runs or choose to stop...

As you can hear (and see) the YoYo doesnt go from levels 1-22 like the bleep test. But don’t be fooled that it starts at L5.1 and jumps*straight to speed*9 and then up to 11!
The YoYo better reflects and assess the physical demands of refereeing as it’s intermittent in nature (stop and start) which is similar to the sorts of activity you’d do refereeing a match. The test also provides you*with a quantifiable insight as to how your*fitness compares to other referees across the refereeing standards, including those at the international standard. The current (May 2017) World Rugby standard is level 18.1! *When you have your own benchmark, you can determine how much time you need to spend on extra fitness work, in line with your*refereeing aspirations.

Source: rugbyreferee(dot)net (http://rugbyreferee.net/fitness).
Includes some video, audio and a link to download the test. Along with a selection of resources you can use to kick-start, or develop, your training as a referee.

winchesterref
10-08-17, 17:08
It's certainly a heck of a test. Too many youngsters smashing out L20+ for me though.

Blindpugh
11-08-17, 12:08
It's certainly a heck of a test. Too many youngsters smashing out L20+ for me though.

Now that is something I do not miss!

I think our target was 15+ and after several weeks pre season training I could achieve it.

I could run all day during a match but hated this part of refereeing.

Drift
12-08-17, 11:08
I hate the test, I am absolutely shattered by the end of it and push a hell of a lot harder than I have to in a game.

Thunderhorse1986
18-08-17, 12:08
It's certainly a heck of a test. Too many youngsters smashing out L20+ for me though.

Not sure why it is a problem that we have more young, fitter referees? As long as fitness is only considered as one of many crucial requirements for refereeing I don't see how it can ever be a problem to be fitter?

Also would love to know how many 20+ efforts there have been in your region. I *think* so far this year for LSRFUR there have been a couple of 20s with a high of 20.5 for one of the Group referees.

andyscott
18-08-17, 13:08
It should be a pass fair for certain levels if the pass is 18, you should be stopped IMO.

winchesterref
23-08-17, 22:08
Not sure why it is a problem that we have more young, fitter referees? As long as fitness is only considered as one of many crucial requirements for refereeing I don't see how it can ever be a problem to be fitter?

Also would love to know how many 20+ efforts there have been in your region. I *think* so far this year for LSRFUR there have been a couple of 20s with a high of 20.5 for one of the Group referees.

The only problem is that I'm not getting any younger.

Simon Thomas
30-08-17, 17:08
Fitness (and pace) is one of four key components for a successful referee - along with law knowledge and appropriate application; cognitive/analytics judgement and decision making; and game knowledge preventative/punitive balance & effectiveness.

Get the fitness in perspective and remember as you go past 15 it is cumulatively more and more challenging. By 18.1 you are operating at serious athlete levels of fitness, 20 + is elite.

Can you maintain physical and mental performance for 80 + minutes to meet the needs of the most challenging matches at the level you operate at or aspire to ?
Are you early at every breakdown ?
Do you see first offences, or better still prevent them ?
Are you in line to see for forward passes / knock-ons ?
Do you get to the right position (for you need to see what you need to) quickly enough ?
Are in in goal to see groundings and correctly signal a try is awarded ?

andyscott
30-08-17, 17:08
Fitness (and pace) is one of four key components for a successful referee - along with law knowledge and appropriate application; cognitive/analytics judgement and decision making; and game knowledge preventative/punitive balance & effectiveness.

Get the fitness in perspective and remember as you go past 15 it is cumulatively more and more challenging. By 18.1 you are operating at serious athlete levels of fitness, 20 + is elite.

Can you maintain physical and mental performance for 80 + minutes to meet the needs of the most challenging matches at the level you operate at or aspire to ?
Are you early at every breakdown ?
Do you see first offences, or better still prevent them ?
Are you in line to see for forward passes / knock-ons ?
Do you get to the right position (for you need to see what you need to) quickly enough ?
Are in in goal to see groundings and correctly signal a try is awarded ?


Which is why game assessment, is far better than a running turning test. Yet it doesn't, far too much is placed on numbers. Just like far too much is placed on sheer age.

Its ok to reach level 18 but then not being able to talk or think is a waste of time.

OB..
30-08-17, 19:08
Its ok to reach level 18 but then not being able to talk or think is a waste of time.AIUI, reaching level 18 means you are very unlikely to run out of puff during a game.

andyscott
30-08-17, 19:08
AIUI, reaching level 18 means you are very unlikely to run out of puff during a game.

Indeed and vice versa, I know a guy who coasts level 4 yet struggles on the yoyo.

Having an unhealthy view of a fit 21yr old who can smash level 20 on the yoyo and has poor ability still will do well in the ranks of refereeing.

But group looking at only young pretty and fit referees always has raised my suspicions ;)

SimonSmith
31-08-17, 00:08
There are, on the circuit, a bunch of young, very fit referees. Always third to the breakdown. Unfortunately, they don't know what they're doing where they get there and they have challenges when good management is required.

I have coaches asking for slightly slower, maybe a bit less fit, older referees. "They know what they're doing" "They don't destroy the game"

The ultimate test shouldn't be a number on a yo-yo or a bleep, it should be how the referee showed up over the 80 minutes.

Thunderhorse1986
31-08-17, 10:08
There are, on the circuit, a bunch of young, very fit referees. Always third to the breakdown. Unfortunately, they don't know what they're doing where they get there and they have challenges when good management is required.

I have coaches asking for slightly slower, maybe a bit less fit, older referees. "They know what they're doing" "They don't destroy the game"

The ultimate test shouldn't be a number on a yo-yo or a bleep, it should be how the referee showed up over the 80 minutes.

Of course the "ultimate test" for a referee should not be a fitness/YoYo score - I don't know of any society where gradings/appointments are made according solely to this! Other factors are just as or more important. But being fit - at least to a certain minimum level - is still crucial and a core part of refereeing as Simon says.

There are numerous studies showing that decision making can become impaired at higher levels of physical stress - so the fitter you are the less likely you are to get to that point and make impaired decisions. If you had (in an admitedly ridiculous hypothetical scenario) two referees with identical management/game awareness but one had scored 15 on a Yo-Yo and one had scored 18 then the latter is more likely to be successful in a game situation.

Anyone can improve their own fitness with some hard work. Maybe those who currently struggle here should work harder to hit higher levels, rather than complaining about the system? I am happy to offer some free running training schedules if anyone wants help with this!

Meanwhile, rather than denigrate the young refs for whom fitness seems to present no problems, we should all be focused on offering them advice and help as to how they can improve their game management / awareness / communication.

crossref
31-08-17, 10:08
To be fair, the actual pass thresholds arent very arduous, you don't need to reach level 18 if you don't think it's important.

Thunderhorse1986
31-08-17, 13:08
To be fair, the actual pass thresholds arent very arduous, you don't need to reach level 18 if you don't think it's important.
Indeed. The bigger issue from those who are less positive about these tests is that they perceive (true or not in reality) that those getting higher scores will automatically be judged as better, marked out for promotion etc, and that less weighting is given to other factors which are less objectively measured. The earlier suggestion that the test stops as soon as the minimum threshold is met would mitigate this, although on the other hand I also don't see why referees who are fitter should not be allowed to showcase this in some way, as it is clearly an important part of the role.

SimonSmith
31-08-17, 22:08
Indeed. The bigger issue from those who are less positive about these tests is that they perceive (true or not in reality) that those getting higher scores will automatically be judged as better, marked out for promotion etc, and that less weighting is given to other factors which are less objectively measured. The earlier suggestion that the test stops as soon as the minimum threshold is met would mitigate this, although on the other hand I also don't see why referees who are fitter should not be allowed to showcase this in some way, as it is clearly an important part of the role.

I am on the selection board for my local Territory. I know the tradeoffs that are being made, and it is in favor of fitness vs quality of refereeing.

it's not about me - my time is done, and I got to B2 with the RFU. It's about others.
First question: What's the beep score? More usually phrased as "who's 11+ on the bleep?" Let me have their names and we'll move them through.
The rebuttal of "but they're not good yet" is ignored.

Thunderhorse1986
01-09-17, 08:09
I am on the selection board for my local Territory. I know the tradeoffs that are being made, and it is in favor of fitness vs quality of refereeing.

it's not about me - my time is done, and I got to B2 with the RFU. It's about others.
First question: What's the beep score? More usually phrased as "who's 11+ on the bleep?" Let me have their names and we'll move them through.
The rebuttal of "but they're not good yet" is ignored.

Thanks for the insight Simon
I think I'm gonna move to the States to further my refereeing having heard that!:biggrin:

didds
01-09-17, 08:09
Well if Mo farrah is short of something to do on a saturday afternoon it seems he is a shoe in for a lead US referee position!

didds

Camquin
01-09-17, 09:09
I believe he is playing in a charity Soccer match. It may be the wrong code, but it is in a very good cause.
#game4grenfell
https://www.eticketing.co.uk/qpr/details/event.aspx?itemref=6866

andyscott
01-09-17, 09:09
To be fair, the actual pass thresholds arent very arduous, you don't need to reach level 18 if you don't think it's important.

Indeed but you can be superfit, hit 16 and say thanks pass. Someone else will come along and do 20. both passes, yet the powers that be will jizz over the guy that got 20, despite both being passes.

It should be a pass/fail, not best effort.

crossref
04-09-17, 16:09
for those interested in yoyo, and referee fitness in general there's lot about it in Ep 3 of the ref podcast.
featuring Ross Hanbury mentioned in this thread

http://rugbyreferee.net/advantageover/

Simon Thomas
05-09-17, 11:09
for those interested in yoyo, and referee fitness in general there's lot about it in Ep 3 of the ref podcast.
featuring Ross Hanbury mentioned in this thread

http://rugbyreferee.net/advantageover/

The excellent podcasts and RugbyReferee.net site are the brainchild of a RugbyRefs.com alumni, so please support him.

As for fitness Ross Hanbury is an outstanding sport science coach working with the London Society, and is now with the LTA and I think is London Scottish's Match Day Ops Manager.

He ran London Society's pre-season fitness and for the 100 referees recently tested (so not just Group and Premier List L6/7s) the average Yo Yo score was 16.4 - pretty impressive results.