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View Full Version : Where should kick be taken after a mark?



Blindpugh
17-09-17, 14:09
In yesterday's game red 9 put in a lovely box kick into opponents 22. Black 15 covers across and calls mark and runs into touch.

AR gave throw in to red as he felt Black 15 had one foot in touch and one in field when he caught the ball. Referee adjudged that Black 15 had called mark before going into touch.

It was a very close call and would have required TMO review. However, my question is where should Black 15 take kick, one or five metres in? :chin:

OB..
17-09-17, 15:09
In yesterday's game red 9 put in a lovely box kick into opponents 22. Black 15 covers across and calls mark and runs into touch.

AR gave throw in to red as he felt Black 15 had one foot in touch and one in field when he caught the ball. Referee adjudged that Black 15 had called mark before going into touch.

It was a very close call and would have required TMO review. However, my question is where should Black 15 take kick, one or five metres in? :chin:Law 18.2 The kick is awarded at the place of the mark. If the mark is made in the in-goal, the kick is awarded 5 metres from the goal line in line with where the mark was made.No dispensation for being close to the touchline.

Blindpugh
17-09-17, 16:09
Law 18.2 The kick is awarded at the place of the mark. If the mark is made in the in-goal, the kick is awarded 5 metres from the goal line in line with where the mark was made.No dispensation for being close to the touchline.

Thanks OB that's what I thought. Resulting clearance kick took play down to 10 metre line whereas angle from one metre would have resulted in touch on 22 metre.

tim White
17-09-17, 16:09
Thanks OB that's what I thought. Resulting clearance kick took play down to 10 metre line whereas angle from one metre would have resulted in touch on 22 metre.

So the correct decision is 'Kick is taken from the Mark'- where was the kick actually taken from?

Blindpugh
17-09-17, 20:09
So the correct decision is 'Kick is taken from the Mark'- where was the kick actually taken from?

5 metres in! :nono:

Taff
17-09-17, 23:09
So the correct decision is 'Kick is taken from the Mark'- where was the kick actually taken from?

5 metres in! :nono:
You'd be surprised how often players think the mark is always 5m infield.

I think what confuses them is that the mark for a scrum near the touchline must be at least 5m infield ... and they then think that EVERY mark needs to be 5m infield. :sad:

Pegleg
18-09-17, 12:09
Agree with all that.

Moving on the AR (or was it a TJ?) called it to be in touch before the mark. If : "It was a very close call and would have required TMO review." Was the referee best placed to overrule the call. Or do you think he should have gone with the call.


I only ever overrule if I am 100% sure that the call is wrong (TOTALLY CLEAR and OBVIOUS).

crossref
18-09-17, 14:09
You'd be surprised how often players think the mark is always 5m infield.

I think what confuses them is that the mark for a scrum near the touchline must be at least 5m infield ... and they then think that EVERY mark needs to be 5m infield. :sad:

As well as the situation for scrums , all PK near or beyond the goal line are now taken at the 5m line.

It's actually a bit of anomaly that PK aren't moved 5m in from touch. Imo they should be

OB..
18-09-17, 15:09
It's actually a bit of anomaly that PK aren't moved 5m in from touch. Imo they should beAgreed. In fact I would prefer to see them all at least 15m from touch

Pegleg
18-09-17, 19:09
As well as the situation for scrums , all PK near or beyond the goal line are now taken at the 5m line.

It's actually a bit of anomaly that PK aren't moved 5m in from touch. Imo they should be


Agreed. In fact I would prefer to see them all at least 15m from touch


Why is that? I can see a good reason for moving scrums in 5 due to their dynamics. What is the reason for not giving a PK at the point of the infringment?

OB..
18-09-17, 19:09
Why is that? I can see a good reason for moving scrums in 5 due to their dynamics. What is the reason for not giving a PK at the point of the infringment?
To make sure it has some value. A PK 6 inches from the touchline merely gives you a nearby lineout or scrum.

crossref
18-09-17, 21:09
Why is that? I can see a good reason for moving scrums in 5 due to their dynamics. What is the reason for not giving a PK at the point of the infringment?

Partly for consistency , partly because a PK extremely close to the touchline is actually very difficult to take without going into touch

Pegleg
18-09-17, 22:09
But the scrum moves out because if the centre of the scrum was on the mark the props could, on occasion be in touch. Or very quickly the scrum would be in touch. The 5 mtre (goal line issue) issue is common sense since taking one a footfrom the line would be almost a nailed on try. However that does not apply with a Penalty near the touch line. The basic principle is the scrum or the kick is where the offence occured (unless there is a good reason to change or, of course, "options").


The fact that it is a difficult kick is not relevant for me. Don't forget you are also making the kick for goal easier! But not as easy as OB would do. In on the 15 would make then all pretty much kickable.

I can see some merit in coming in to the 5 but not the 15.

Taff
18-09-17, 23:09
.... I can see some merit in coming in to the 5 but not the 15.
At least 5m would be consistent with other marks.

Pegleg
19-09-17, 08:09
It would indeed. hoever, for me, the are good reasons fpr the other exception. I'd have no problem if they brought it in 5. 15 would be daft .

OB..
19-09-17, 11:09
Despite my view, I remember a kicking demonstration by a Welsh fullback when I was at school (1950s). He stood on the touchline and curved the ball infield then out into touch some way down the line. He then did the same with the other foot.

However that didn't happen at grass roots, which is where the 15m rule would be most beneficial. I don't think the supposed downside at top levels is too serious.

crossref
19-09-17, 11:09
Proposing 5m I wasn't even thinking about kicks at goal, where it will hardly make any difference to most grass roots kickers , I was thinking of the kick to touch , and the quick tap, in both cases there is a lot of difference being 50cm from the touch line or 5m from it

Nigib
19-09-17, 22:09
Despite my view, I remember a kicking demonstration by a Welsh fullback when I was at school (1950s). He stood on the touchline and curved the ball infield then out into touch some way down the line. He then did the same with the other foot.

However that didn't happen at grass roots, which is where the 15m rule would be most beneficial. I don't think the supposed downside at top levels is too serious.

Isn't that a standard 'banana' ball? I seem to remember trying and achieving that with very little practice on a coaching course many moons ago. I see it used several times a season down at my level.

OB..
20-09-17, 13:09
Isn't that a standard 'banana' ball? I seem to remember trying and achieving that with very little practice on a coaching course many moons ago. I see it used several times a season down at my level.I don't recall having seen it at all in any of my games for many years.

ChrisR
20-09-17, 13:09
The 'banana' kick isn't difficult but the need for it is rare and the wind conditions need to be favorable. The case in the OP is one. Probably not taught much.

Pinky
21-09-17, 01:09
The 5 mtre (goal line issue) issue is common sense since taking one a footfrom the line would be almost a nailed on try. However that does not apply with a Penalty near the touch line. The basic principle is the scrum or the kick is where the offence occured (unless there is a good reason to change or, of course, "options").


I can see some merit in coming in to the 5 but not the 15.

Only for the attacking team. There is no logic to moving a defensive PK to the 5m line, but WR did this some years ago.

Moving in 15 is what happens when there is an infringement while the ball is out of play, so there is logic in OBs suggestion.

Pegleg
21-09-17, 20:09
Only for the attacking team. There is no logic to moving a defensive PK to the 5m line, but WR did this some years ago.

Moving in 15 is what happens when there is an infringement while the ball is out of play, so there is logic in OBs suggestion.

The "5 in" at both ends equalises the two 5 mtr zones.

The £15 in" is logical with offences at a line out (after the ball has gone into touch).

Pegleg
21-09-17, 20:09
Proposing 5m I wasn't even thinking about kicks at goal, where it will hardly make any difference to most grass roots kickers , I was thinking of the kick to touch , and the quick tap, in both cases there is a lot of difference being 50cm from the touch line or 5m from it

"Too much advantage (gain)"?

ChuckieB
06-10-17, 14:10
And some confirmation from:

http://www.sareferees.co.za/ref-replies/duty-ref-533--jaco--jaco/2829672/

Question: In the Lions vs Jaguares, about 46 min, in, the Lions scrumhalf tackles high and takes the player into touch. Should the penalty be given on the 5m or 15m from touch?Jaco Peyper: Hi Willem - if I am not mistaken… you are a very good and eager referee at Free State society for last few years (Scotty!)

I do not have the video footage available in Argentina, but if the transgression takes place inside the field with the ball still in play – the mark of the penalty kick is at the place of infringement, even though they might end up outside the field.

It is different though when ball is out of play (player in touch) and then the infringement takes place – the penalty kick mark is 15m in as play would have restarted with a Line Out but for the infringement.

Pinky
05-04-18, 15:04
To bump this based on finally getting to watch the second half of the Harlequins Saracens match - Tom Foley made Alex Goode take the kick from a mark (that was disputed) a couple of meters in front of the DBL and not 5m into play. To be fair to TF, he had too many players in his ear all game and otherwise, I thought, did well.

crossref
05-04-18, 15:04
I watched that game.. although I don't remember the mark, I thought he had a poor game , allowed too much chat and at one point didn't he say something like "you have had your warning, now I am giving you .... another warning ". Wtf ?

OB..
05-04-18, 20:04
Both law books say the kick should be taken in the field of play at least 5 metres from the goal line (2018: 17.7; 2017: 21.2 a & b).

BikingBud
08-04-18, 22:04
I know it's old but.........

I think I would have confirmed ball caught in touch and gone with throw in where it was kicked.

Unless the 9 was such good kicker that he had kicked it from his own 22 :wink: