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View Full Version : Foul play AFTER try is scored.



Pegleg
04-10-17, 08:10
Scenario:

White 14 scores. As he is scoring Black 9 attempts a "tackle" the referee deams the attempt was leagal as it was before the score and not a bit of "post try afters". Referee award the try in the normal way.

Assume that to this point the referee is perfectley correct.


Now here's the bit!

AFTER the try is awarded White 4 "lets Black 9 know" that: "do that again and I'll "f*****G have you!".

Referee Tells White Captain: "Bring me no 4 NOW!"

White 4 and Captain are told. "If he does that again I will disallow the try and card him". (NOTE we are not talking bout a PRE SCORE offence that was brought to the ref's attention by TMO or AR Aafter the awarding of the try!)

Surely the correct action (as the try has been awarded before the actions of White 4) would be to:


Award the try.
Card White 4. Assuming you felt the actions warrent a card
Restart with a PK to Black on half way.


If I'm right would it be better to wait a little before awardign the try to watch for "afters" and then, rahther than award and disallow the try go straight to the PK?

Ian_Cook
04-10-17, 08:10
Scenario:

White 14 scores. As he is scoring Black 9 attempts a "tackle" the referee deams the attempt was leagal as it was before the score and not a bit of "post try afters". Referee award the try in the normal way.

Assume that to this point the referee is perfectley correct.


Now here's the bit!

AFTER the try is awarded White 4 "lets Black 9 know" that: "do that again and I'll "f*****G have you!".

Referee Tells White Captain: "Bring me no 4 NOW!"

White 4 and Captain are told. "If he does that again I will disallow the try and card him". (NOTE we are not talking bout a PRE SCORE offence that was brought to the ref's attention by TMO or AR Aafter the awarding of the try!)

Surely the correct action (as the try has been awarded before the actions of White 4) would be to:


Award the try.
Card White 4. Assuming you felt the actions warrent a card
Restart with a PK to Black on half way.


If I'm right would it be better to wait a little before awarding the try to watch for "afters" and then, rahther than award and disallow the try go straight to the PK?


He can't disallow the try once the ball gas been grounded.

Your sequence of actions is correct

Flish
04-10-17, 09:10
Scenario:

Surely the correct action (as the try has been awarded before the actions of White 4) would be to:


Award the try.
Card White 4. Assuming you felt the actions warrent a card
Restart with a PK to Black on half way.



Seems fair to me, nothing happened before the try was scored to warrant disallowing it

Taff
04-10-17, 11:10
He can't disallow the try once the ball gas been grounded.

In theory I think we can disallow a Try after it's been awarded ... provided the AR notifies us of a mistake. I've only ever seen it happen once.

As an add-on, I remember someone mentioning before that they might consider not allowing the conversion (for an offence after the Try but before the conversion) but my understanding is we can't do that. If we award a normal try (ie not a penalty try) we must allow a conversion attempt.

didds
04-10-17, 12:10
In theory I think we can disallow a Try after it's been awarded ... provided the AR notifies us of a mistake. I've only ever seen it happen once.

.

Grant Fox, ABs v Ireland, Dublin 1989

try disallowed - TJ had his flag up for a incorrectly taken lineout way over the other side of the field previously unseen by the ref

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBNhYHzsvyg&feature=youtu.be&t=420

That would have been Fox's first ever test try. And is possibly the last time a thrower with a foot in the field of play was pulled up!

didds

Dickie E
04-10-17, 22:10
If I'm right would it be better to wait a little before awardign the try to watch for "afters" and then, rahther than award and disallow the try go straight to the PK?

I think you're mixing up "grounding the ball" and "awarding the try".

For mine, if the ball has been grounded and, while the ref is bringing the whistle to his lips, there is foul play by the attacking team, that is still a try.

irishref
04-10-17, 22:10
The 'offence' as you describe it happens after the try. It shouldn't affect the score since there is no suspicion of something prior to the try happening that would negate the score.

So manage it by stopping the clock, calling White4 and Black9 plus their captains over to you for a word and then carry on with the conversion and subsequent restart.

As described I don't think there's any need for a card at all.

Paule23
05-10-17, 20:10
The 'offence' as you describe it happens after the try. It shouldn't affect the score since there is no suspicion of something prior to the try happening that would negate the score.

So manage it by stopping the clock, calling White4 and Black9 plus their captains over to you for a word and then carry on with the conversion and subsequent restart.

As described I don't think there's any need for a card at all.

I agree as described there is no need for a card, but I'm not at all happy with the threats issued by White and agree a penalty could be appropriate (the lovely 10.4m). In 3 years I don't think I've ever restated after a score with a penalty, probably happen this weekend now....

crossref
05-10-17, 21:10
I have done it once .. everyone was very confused . They took the PK like it was a restart. Even though it wouldn't have been their restart. I remember thinking 'that went well'

Phil E
06-10-17, 09:10
If you award a PK instead of the kick off.....can they choose a scrum? I assume they can.
So we have a scrum in the centre after a score...how confused would the crowd be?

didds
06-10-17, 09:10
time for GOOD secondary signals :-)



didds

Phil E
06-10-17, 09:10
Apparently Tigers had a PK restart after a try once and kicked it for 3 points from the middle. So a 10 point try!

Pegleg
06-10-17, 11:10
If you award a PK instead of the kick off.....can they choose a scrum? I assume they can.
So we have a scrum in the centre after a score...how confused would the crowd be?

I guess they must be allowed to as it is an option. however, I can't imagine anyone would do so howver dominant their scrum.

Pegleg
06-10-17, 11:10
I think you're mixing up "grounding the ball" and "awarding the try".



Nope He awarded the try. It is clear both from the singals given and the wording used on the recording.



Whitle blown and secondary signal for a try.

Pegleg
06-10-17, 11:10
time for GOOD secondary signals :-)



didds

His signals an verbals were very clear and good as to the awarding the try. It was his reasoning that I am questioning. AFTER AWARDING THE TRY ( Just to make it clear).

Pegleg
06-10-17, 11:10
Apparently Tigers had a PK restart after a try once and kicked it for 3 points from the middle. So a 10 point try!

Have see a PK awarded to the scoring side. Usually kicked t othe corners. I've not seen the 3 points taken. I've not seen the attacking side pingged before.

crossref
06-10-17, 11:10
The problem that the ref faces taking action after the try is scored , is that no one is paying the ref any attention whatsoever , so any signals you make , or cards you show tend to go unnoticed.
Obviously you make sure both captains know what's gone on, but spectators can be clueless

Rich_NL
06-10-17, 11:10
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/watch-mythical-ten-point-try/

Phil E
06-10-17, 12:10
, but spectators can be clueless

Stand alone statement :biggrin: