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breako
18-03-18, 22:03
Red come in from the side, ref penalises for offsense.
There is back chat from Red, so ref moves them back another 10M.
Blue then take it quickly from the new mark? Is that ok?

Usually, ref's don't allow two quick penalties in succession. But this time, the ref was moving the mark for the penalty for back chat - not for not being back 10.

Thoughts?

crossref
18-03-18, 23:03
They can take the 2nd PK as soon as the ref makes a mark.
It would be bad form to sprint to the new mark and make it . But conversely you don't need to enquire whether the defenders are completely ready yet ..

How fast did the ref move ? At a reasonable pace ?

Taff
18-03-18, 23:03
... Usually, ref's don't allow two quick penalties in succession. But this time, the ref was moving the mark for the penalty for back chat - not for not being back 10. Thoughts?
My understanding is that players can take a 2nd quick penalty as soon as the Ref gives the mark .... but that the Ref should walk forward to give that mark. If the Ref can walk 10m the defending team should have enough time to jog 10 metres.

Dickie E
19-03-18, 00:03
If I'm getting back chat from Red that warrants a march, I am probably going time off to have a word with the player and his captain. This is flash point territory that needs to be managed well.

That's a roundabout way of saying that I doubt Blue will be taking a quick one.

menace
19-03-18, 05:03
But you just love having a chat! :biggrin:

crossref
19-03-18, 07:03
If I'm getting back chat from Red that warrants a march, I am probably going time off to have a word with the player and his captain. This is flash point territory that needs to be managed well.

That's a roundabout way of saying that I doubt Blue will be taking a quick one.

But when you eventually do make the new mark, Blue can immediately tap and go, right ?

So in that sense they CAN take it quickly

Zebra1922
19-03-18, 08:03
Rigby myth no. xxxx. You can take as many 'quick' penalties as you like, there is no limit as long as they are taken from the mark, and the referee must make that mark. Posts frequently suggest it is good game management if the referee walks slowly to the mark for the second (or third etc) penalty to give time for the defenders to get back 10, but if they choose to dither, not retire again etc. then they are liable to a third penalty, fourth penalty etc all of which can be taken once the referee makes the mark.

I'm not a believer in the slow wander. If a team does not wake up and retreat rapidly why should I help them out? Now I don't sprint to the second mark, but neither do I crawl like a tortoise. I walk normal pace, make the mark and leave it to the team in possession to go when they want.

Dickie E
19-03-18, 11:03
Rigby myth no. xxxx. You can take as many 'quick' penalties as you like, there is no limit as long as they are taken from the mark, and the referee must make that mark. Posts frequently suggest it is good game management if the referee walks slowly to the mark for the second (or third etc) penalty to give time for the defenders to get back 10, but if they choose to dither, not retire again etc. then they are liable to a third penalty, fourth penalty etc all of which can be taken once the referee makes the mark.



I would never ever ever march a team more than once. If the first march doesn't work, its a card

didds
19-03-18, 11:03
wouldn;t you want to give the oppo the best chance though Dickie? If the second quick tap was halted illegally, but a third advanced quick tap would liikely see a try scored/significant advantage accrue, are you really going to deny them that because you feel you HAVE to stop the game for a chat and a card? Chats and card's can be done after the ball is next dead?

and if a team is daft enough to give up multiple 10m territory then why deny them that opportunity?

didds

Dickie E
19-03-18, 13:03
wouldn;t you want to give the oppo the best chance though Dickie? If the second quick tap was halted illegally, but a third advanced quick tap would liikely see a try scored/significant advantage accrue, are you really going to deny them that because you feel you HAVE to stop the game for a chat and a card? Chats and card's can be done after the ball is next dead?

and if a team is daft enough to give up multiple 10m territory then why deny them that opportunity?

didds

this is Jobsworth 101.

A player who has been multiple marched is likely to be red misted and the taker of the quick tap likely to be dangerously tackled. And it would be the ref's fault

crossref
19-03-18, 13:03
Dickie there are two questions

1 how long should the ref take to make the 2nd mark .. and this will depend on circumstances, and nature of game

2 the moment the 2nd mark is made, they can tap and go, right ? (answer .. yes )

DocY
19-03-18, 13:03
this is Jobsworth 101.

A player who has been multiple marched is likely to be red misted and the taker of the quick tap likely to be dangerously tackled. And it would be the ref's fault

IME they're too busy arguing that they can't take a second quick tap that they wouldn't be paying attention to the third.

But to address the more serious point - if you've marched them back more than once, you haven't solved the problem.

Rich_NL
19-03-18, 13:03
I would never ever ever march a team more than once. If the first march doesn't work, its a card

Is it not a card and additional 10? Or is it a card with no further sanction associated?

Zebra1922
19-03-18, 16:03
Is it not a card and additional 10? Or is it a card with no further sanction associated?

Card and an additional 10. So 1st penalty, not 10 peep, march 10. Second penalty again not 10, peep, YC and march 10.

Personally I would not give the YC in this situation. I know the arguments about deliberate repeat offending and no card just encourages people to keep doing it, and I certainly agree there are limits. But if this is the first time I've had to give a second not 10 call in a row I wouldn't reach for my pocket.

didds
19-03-18, 17:03
this is Jobsworth 101.

A player who has been multiple marched is likely to be red misted and the taker of the quick tap likely to be dangerously tackled. And it would be the ref's fault

And when it's not the same player but different ones each time?

Is that reffing 102?

Lee Lifeson-Peart
19-03-18, 18:03
I recall getting marched back about 60 metres in the 80s - pre cards. It wasn't me I hasten to add, I was a good lad.