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View Full Version : always remember your coin ...



Dickie E
14-11-18, 00:11
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/7732184/ref-suspended-rock-paper-scissors-steph-houghton/

Not Kurt Weaver
14-11-18, 00:11
I heard it was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSLeBKT7-sM

leaguerefaus
14-11-18, 04:11
It's hard to believe that this is a serious story. Suspending a referee for using an alternative method to a coin toss? That's making a mountain out of a molehill.

Why does it matter? Was a fair method used to determine who kicks off / the direction of play? Yes.

I'll often not use a coin, but rather just get a player to choose what hand the whistle is in, or to 'rock off' like this referee did. Crazy.

crossref
14-11-18, 06:11
Why does it matter? Was a fair method used to determine who kicks off / the direction of play? Yes.

I'll often not use a coin, but rather just get a player to choose what hand the whistle is in, or to 'rock off' like this referee did. Crazy.

I think the clue is here


.Manchester City’s Steph Houghton, who also captains England, and Reading’s Kirsty Pearce were made to participate in the children’s game

And here from BBC report

.FA women's refereeing manager Joanna Stimpson told The Times that the McNamara's mistake was "a moment of madness".

She added: "The referee forgot his coin and in that moment, in a TV game, he was really pushed for time.

"He should have been more prepared, he should have had a coin. It was disappointing, it's not appropriate, it's very unprofessional."

.. ie acting outside the laws and beyond his powers he forced two players to participate in something childish.
(Gosh, it reminds me strangely of some thing)

I completely understand why the FA took that view , and wanted to reprimand him for that

Ian_Cook
14-11-18, 08:11
Don't Panic.... at least he didn't forget his towel!

didds
14-11-18, 09:11
I completely understand why the FA took that view , and wanted to reprimand him for that


I can see that the FA refs bosses/mentors might want to have a little chat etc.

But suspended for three weeks? FFS. How does that help anybody?

Or are the FA saying their refs are so stupid it takes three weeks of intensive study and retraining for them to learn to remember to always carry a coin? Because I cant think of a single reason why it would take three weeks to remind this guy of that!

crossref
14-11-18, 09:11
Its NOT for forgetting his coin

It's for making two captains play a childish game.
An error of judgement

didds
14-11-18, 11:11
So its takes three weeks for retraining as to what game/method to use instead then?

Obvious.

didds

crossref
14-11-18, 11:11
Yes the suspension is harsh
But it's a salutory lesson , not for retraining

The lesson for everyone is not : remember your coin (we knew that)

The lesson is : dont make the captains play RPS, or any other silly game. Go and fetch a coin.

DocY
14-11-18, 12:11
It's for making two captains play a childish game.


Football's just as childish a game!

Camquin
14-11-18, 12:11
It is for forgetting your coin when on TV.
I am sure the response woul dhave been different if he had he done it for Old Codgers v Dog & Duck in a Sunday league

crossref
14-11-18, 13:11
It is for forgetting your coin when on TV.
I am sure the response woul dhave been different if he had he done it for Old Codgers v Dog & Duck in a Sunday league

NO!!

it's for making the captains play RPS !

If he had instead borrowed a coin, or gone and fetched a coin does anyone think we would be reading about it now, and him suspended ?

didds
14-11-18, 13:11
I dunno CR.

I'm frankly amazed we are reading about it because of RPS.

So to ARs not carry coins "just in case" so a ref forgetting his/hers can just get one rather than resort of alleged childish games ? Or have the FA themselves never considered this potential scenario and given guidelines for it? ie team of four all carry coins just in case #1 forgets his?

seems as likely to be a systemic failure as a brain fart by the guy in the middle.

Three week suspesion is stupidly and ridiculously harsh for what shoud be no more than a finger wag (and FA self reflection).

didds

crossref
14-11-18, 14:11
Maybe it's common sense that RPS is not appropriate

The last time I forgot my coin I went back to the clubhouse and fetched it .

If that was impossible (like it's 5 min walk away) then I would use almost any method rather than asking the captains to play RPS

Which hand is better. It would make me appear slightly ridiculous which is what I deserve having forgotten the coin, rather than RPS which makes the captains appear faintly ridiculous

(This is why the referee chose it, he made the opposite choice and that is why he was suspend )

I agree that suspension was harsh !

Rich_NL
14-11-18, 17:11
Childish? We're talking about grown adults larking about in a field after a ball; hardly ceremonies honouring the departed or struggles of life and death. It calls for perspective rather than pomposity.

crossref
14-11-18, 17:11
I guess the Law makers in football, rugby, cricket and other sports applied perspective and decided that a coin toss was the best way

I remember being chided here for not doing the coin toss properly (tossing it myself rather than giving it to one captain as laid out in the Laws) .

Suitably chastised I do it properly now

menace
14-11-18, 23:11
I guess the Law makers in football, rugby, cricket and other sports applied perspective and decided that a coin toss was the best way

I remember being chided here for not doing the coin toss properly (tossing it myself rather than giving it to one captain as laid out in the Laws) .

Suitably chastised I do it properly now

Funny. I didn't realise there was a proper way/etiquette as who tosses the bloody thing in the air??? On reflection I have no set way and sometimes ill hand the coin over and sometimes I'll just toss the thing myself....no one seems to care. But admittedly come finals time I hand the coin over to the "home" capt.

When I forget my coin it's a simple "you were on the field first what do you want to do?" (Again no audible complaints). But thats cause I had a sheltered childhood and RPS is too confusing.

crossref
14-11-18, 23:11
Funny. I didn't realise there was a proper way/etiquette as who tosses the bloody thing in the air??? On reflection I have no set way and sometimes ill hand the coin over and sometimes I'll just toss the thing myself....no one seems to care. .


3.6 The referee organises the toss. One of the captains tosses a coin and the other captain calls. The winner of the toss decides whether to kick off or to choose an end. If the winner of the toss decides to choose an end, the opponents must kick off and vice versa.




When I forget my coin it's a simple "you were on the field first what do you want to do?" (Again no audible complaints).

That would probably have earned that football ref a suspension as well :)

Dickie E
14-11-18, 23:11
Funny. I didn't realise there was a proper way/etiquette as who tosses the bloody thing in the air??? On reflection I have no set way and sometimes ill hand the coin over and sometimes I'll just toss the thing myself....no one seems to care. But admittedly come finals time I hand the coin over to the "home" capt.

When I forget my coin it's a simple "you were on the field first what do you want to do?" (Again no audible complaints). But thats cause I had a sheltered childhood and RPS is too confusing.


I wonder if there are some gender politics happening here. Maybe the ref may have taken more care if it was a men's game and he's been given a big smack for disrespecting the fledgling womxn's game?

Zebra1922
14-11-18, 23:11
I frequently forget a coin (or leave it in a changing room a mile away from the pitch). I don't see anything wrong with a quicklime of hide the whistle. Rock, paper scissors is a bit bizarre in TV game, but 3 week suspension? Give me a break.

Marc Wakeham
14-11-18, 23:11
I think the clue is here



And here from BBC report


.. ie acting outside the laws and beyond his powers he forced two players to participate in something childish.
(Gosh, it reminds me strangely of some thing)

I completely understand why the FA took that view , and wanted to reprimand him for that

It is the FA that needs to grow up here.

crossref
14-11-18, 23:11
It is the FA that needs to grow up here.

because using CPS is acceptable?

or that while CPS was inappropriate, the a suspension was too harsh ?

Marc Wakeham
14-11-18, 23:11
I never had over the coin (actually it is a plastic token {black and white}). If I'm up the valley I will some times make a joke about it. Never had an issue with it.

We deciding who makes a choise about the Kick off. Not about leaving the flaming EU. Life is to short for this crap.

- - - Updated - - -


because using CPS is acceptable?

or that while CPS was inappropriate, the a suspension was too harsh ?

The first. Get real.

crossref
14-11-18, 23:11
I wonder if there are some gender politics happening here. Maybe the ref may have taken more care if it was a men's game and he's been given a big smack for disrespecting the fledgling womxn's game?

I am not sure it's about gender per se - but definitely there is a suspicion he wouldn't have done RPS if he thought the game was properly important.

see menace's post 17 above : he doesn't bother too much about coin toss etiquette in an ordinary game, but when it's a final he takes care to do it properly...

let's face it : if any one of us was reffing the highest level cup -final we would ever be likely to get (1) we'd remember the coin and (2) if we did forget it it's really unlikely we'd start an important game like that by suggesting RPS, isn't it?

menace
15-11-18, 09:11
3.6 The referee organises the toss. One of the captains tosses a coin and the other captain calls. The winner of the toss decides whether to kick off or to choose an end. If the winner of the toss decides to choose an end, the opponents must kick off and vice versa.




That would probably have earned that football ref a suspension as well :)

Noted. Ta

(But my brain has limited capacity reserved for important laws that matter so I will probably file it away in the '"Claytons laws/who cares" draw within my brain along with the 'ball dimensions and air pressure'. :biggrin:)

crossref
15-11-18, 09:11
doing the toin coss wrong isn't going to be a big deal.

RPS has two things wrong with it
- it does trivialize the moment and seems a little disrespectful
- it's not actually random... people can be good at it...

damo
15-11-18, 09:11
I must admit Rock Paper Scissors is my go to in the event that I haven't got a coin. Doesn't happen very often and was more common in my younger, (less organised, more carefree days). I have never had an issue with it. Captains are good natured about it.

I have even seen it a few times in club games on the TV show we have here "Grass Roots Rugby", which covers a lot of clubs from all stripes, particularly from rural areas.

Having said all that, if I was refereeing a serious game on TV I would make sure I had a coin - and if I didn't I would borrow one. Serious overreaction from the FA though.

didds
15-11-18, 09:11
BBC cricket social is right now disucssing the toss in cricket and the following suggestion was made..

eg SL v Eng.

Both teams put in a sealed bid for the number of runs they are prepared to "give away".

So if SL bid 33 and Englkand bid 542, England thus win the toss, but when SL bat5 they START at 42-0.


So in rugby, A bids 10, B bids 13.
B wins the "toss" and elects to kick off or receive BUT the scoreboard starts
A 13 B 0

an intriguing idea...

didds

crossref
15-11-18, 10:11
That is a great idea for cricket ... but for rugby I think both captains would bid zero

damo
15-11-18, 10:11
The reality is that in rugby the toss is worth basically nothing. It's very rare that there is really a tangible advantage in winning the toss. - say where the wind is forecast to die down later on. I admit I don't take it all that seriously because it isn't something to worry about. There has to be a way of deciding who plays which way and who kicks off, but the outcome is normally irrelevant to who wins the game. Football is the same.

Cricket on the other hand is a game where the toss is vital, and often is the difference between winning or losing.

crossref
15-11-18, 10:11
BBC cricket social is right now disucssing the toss in cricket and the following suggestion was made..

eg SL v Eng.

Both teams put in a sealed bid for the number of runs they are prepared to "give away".

So if SL bid 33 and Englkand bid 542, England thus win the toss, but when SL bat5 they START at 42-0.


So in rugby, A bids 10, B bids 13.
B wins the "toss" and elects to kick off or receive BUT the scoreboard starts
A 13 B 0

an intriguing idea...

didds

In the cricoet scenario a variation is for the team winning to give the number of runs bid by the loser +1. (an eBay style auction)

crossref
15-11-18, 11:11
Nigel Owens is cross about it

https://www.ruck.co.uk/nigel-owens-is-furious-after-football-referee-is-suspended/

Ian_Cook
15-11-18, 11:11
BBC cricket social is right now disucssing the toss in cricket and the following suggestion was made..

eg SL v Eng.

Both teams put in a sealed bid for the number of runs they are prepared to "give away".

So if SL bid 33 and Englkand bid 542, England thus win the toss, but when SL bat5 they START at 42-0.


So in rugby, A bids 10, B bids 13.
B wins the "toss" and elects to kick off or receive BUT the scoreboard starts
A 13 B 0

an intriguing idea...

didds

didds, that's 542-0 .... YIKES!

Dickie E
15-11-18, 13:11
I like the baseball protocol where the home always bats second.

Shelflife
15-11-18, 15:11
Was the RPS done live on TV or was it in private ?

If live on TV it prob wasnt appropriate, if in private who cares !

3 week suspension either way is way over the top, a quiet word in his ear would have been more appropriate.

crossref
15-11-18, 15:11
Was the RPS done live on TV or was it in private ?

If live on TV it prob wasnt appropriate, if in private who cares !

3 .

Someone cared, as someone complained

thepercy
15-11-18, 16:11
If you use RPS do you have just one go at it or best 2 out of 3?

crossref
15-11-18, 18:11
It's always best of three :-)

Pinky
15-11-18, 18:11
It's always best of three :-)

In a ladies game. best of 5 for men, though unless it is a less important competition!

crossref
16-11-18, 07:11
Football referee to do RPS in solidarity ..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46229096

VM75
17-11-18, 20:11
Football referee to do RPS in solidarity ..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46229096

Another soccer own goal here. officialdom gone mad.

Whoever complained, needed to be given a 'not interested' message from the game, whatever next .....

ps.. Surprised soccer refs aren't permitted to carry a tazer !

pps, reminds me of a U10's festival a few years back , where the kick off was decided with an arm wrestle by the coaches, a lighthearted way to get the game underway - enjoyed by most watchers

Marc Wakeham
17-11-18, 21:11
Refs plan protest https://sports.yahoo.com/referees-plan-rock-paper-scissors-protest-suspended-colleague-081206306.html?guccounter=1

Marc Wakeham
17-11-18, 21:11
The complainant? From the above article: "After the match, FA women’s refereeing manager Joanna Stimpson spoke to The Times, and branded his decision “very unprofessional” and “a moment of madness.” " So problably perceiving a slight on the women's game.

crossref
17-11-18, 22:11
Correctly perceiving a slight on the game in front of him.

Marc Wakeham
18-11-18, 20:11
Tosh. A simple forgetting of the coin, could happen to any of us (and has to a lot). Ref thought on his feet and resolved the situation quickly and they got on with the game. Now a jobsworth wants to go on a power trip. Pathetic!

crossref
18-11-18, 21:11
This isn't about forgetting a coin, which could happen to anyone

It's about making captains play rock paper scissors .. which is an error of judgement. He should have gone and fetched his coin

Phil E
19-11-18, 13:11
CR, you seem to be the only person who thinks the sanction was ok.

On another note I once left the three match balls in my changing room, which was then locked up. :redface:

crossref
19-11-18, 13:11
CR, you seem to be the only person who thinks the sanction was ok.

On another note I once left the three match balls in my changing room, which was then locked up. :redface:

No I think the sanction was too harsh .

It should have been a reprimand . . .

When you forgot the balls I am sure you fessed up, and made sure they were retreived, I bet you didn't say : it's not important we will play with the warm up balls?

Phil E
19-11-18, 14:11
No I think the sanction was too harsh .

It should have been a reprimand . . .

When you forgot the balls I am sure you fessed up, and made sure they were retreived, I bet you didn't say : it's not important we will play with the warm up balls?

Funnily enough the lesson I learnt was never to take responsibility for the match balls. Not my job thanks.

SimonSmith
19-11-18, 17:11
CR, you seem to be the only person who thinks the sanction was ok.

On another note I once left the three match balls in my changing room, which was then locked up. :redface:
I once left the referee locked in the changing room

Flish
19-11-18, 18:11
I once left the referee locked in the changing room

By Accident ? :chin: :D

Lee Lifeson-Peart
19-11-18, 20:11
I left my cards/wallet in the changing room a few weeks ago.:redface:

crossref
19-11-18, 21:11
When I leave the changing room I now take everything I need with me, even if I am planning to go back in later .. you never know when someone will helpfully lock the room

crossref
19-11-18, 21:11
Looks like the ref himself, and Ref Support UK both agree me .. they accept it wasn't appropriate (the ref pleaded guilty anyway) and believe that the sanction shoins have been a written reprimand.
Seems about right

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46250404

SimonSmith
20-11-18, 01:11
By Accident ? :chin: :D
I will never tell as long as there are Hants Referees on this site ;)

Dickie E
20-11-18, 02:11
The complainant? From the above article: "After the match, FA women’s refereeing manager Joanna Stimpson spoke to The Times, and branded his decision “very unprofessional” and “a moment of madness.” " So problably perceiving a slight on the women's game.

I wonder who butters Joanna's bread? If she is a referee, nothing like getting chucked under the bus by one of your own. :sad:

crossref
20-11-18, 08:11
I wonder who butters Joanna's bread? If she is a referee, nothing like getting chucked under the bus by one of your own. :sad:

I have not seen anything to suggest she was the complainamt, she was commenting on the case.

No doubt someone who was present complained

Let's not forget the referee himself accepted that it was unprofessional, as does his advisers (they are appealing the sanction, which was harsh)

It did seem an odd thing for a referee manager to say, I tracked down the Times article ..

Note that it was Phil Neville who said it was a moment of madness and very unprofessional, not Stimpson

Joanna Stimpson merely said she was disappointed



Joanna Stimpson, the FA women’s refereeing manager, can offer no excuses for the rock, paper, scissors debacle. “Disappointed is probably the word I’d use,” Stimpson says.

Neville has said poor refereeing is his greatest concern about next year’s World Cup

Neville has said poor refereeing is his greatest concern about next year’s World Cup
NATHAN STIRK/GETTY IMAGES
“The referee forgot his coin and in that moment, in a TV game, he was really pushed for time, it was a moment of madness. He obviously thought it was the right thing to do, he probably walked away, or the second afterwards, thought it wasn’t the right thing to do.

“It’s not defendable. He should have been more prepared, he should have had a coin but he didn’t. It was disappointing, it’s not appropriate, it’s very unprofessional.

ADVERTISEMENT

“The laws of the game state you toss a coin. I can’t think it’s something we are going to ignore. He wasn’t taking the mick out of the game, it was just a really poor decision.”

Looking forward to seeing you reverse ferreting on JS and condemning PN !

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/are-male-referees-too-lenient-with-female-footballers-6h6mf0t9h

Marc Wakeham
20-11-18, 09:11
For Nevillie it is just a tool in his "Whingefest" aginst officials. I'd take his comments with a pinch of salt.

The ref accepting it? Well yes forgetting your coin is "unprofessional". Finding a quick solution is not.

THe ref accepting the charge but contesting the punishment? Well what a surprise! Just like a player who says sorry, wears a nice suit and brings the "good" bickies to the hearing because they will probably get a "low end" ban if they do. We can assume, with a fair degree of certainty, his "plea" is just politics.

God help this ref manager and the Womans FA if they ever have something really serious to deal with. Football cant deal with the ref abuse the violent appealing wtc. But hey let's hand tis poor sod out to dry.

Someone's got their values all wrong.

Simply sokution, and I bet it happened !

Assessor (post game debrief): "that was a bit dumb forgeting your coin"

Ref: "Yep. Felt like a pillock. Still RPS seemed to work ok."

Assesor: "It did but best not make a habit of it."

REf: "Agreed."

Assesor: "Right, how do you feel the game went? "


CASE CLOSED!

Miserable git's complaint: " Disgusting, Rant Rant Rant Daily Mail Rant!!!!!"

Women's FA: " Thanks for contacting us t obring this to our attention. The matter was raised in the referee's debrief and dealt with appropriately." Optional but best avioded PS: "GET A LIFE LOSER"

crossref
20-11-18, 09:11
You still don't get it. (Or perhaps you do but are misrepresenting it ?)
He isn't being punished for forgetting his coin, it's for making the players play RPS

Marc Wakeham
20-11-18, 09:11
I get it perfectly! Note this bit: "Well yes forgetting your coin is "unprofessional". Finding a quick solution is not."


The only "issue" is the lack of preparation. Something we have all done. Double and tripple check you have everything. That's it move on.

The RPS "issue" is tosh. complete and utter codswallop. He's being punnished because some people have no sense of prespective.

I am of the opinion that, the Women's FA and Mr Richard Cranium, the prat that complained, need a comon sense transplant.

I hope that clarifies things for you.

crossref
20-11-18, 10:11
Yes, it does , you don't get it !
It's the opposite to what you said .

Forgetting his coin was a mistake, that could happen to anyone (we have all forgotten stuff)

What was unprofessional was what happened next .. making the captains play RPS

Marc Wakeham
20-11-18, 11:11
That's where we disagree.

I understand that some think RPS was unprofessional.

I do not agree.


RPS was a bit if quick thinking to resolve the situation. WELL DONE REF!

Sorry that you can't understand that I disagree with you. But there we go. Richard Craniumand the rest of the jobsworths acted IN MY OPINION as real bellends. THere we go I don't think #i can be clearer than that!

Now we've done this to death. I'm out.

SimonSmith
20-11-18, 13:11
I'm wary to tread in here, but...

This is the top tier of domestic Women's Football, a game that still struggles to get taken seriously. It's an issue that a lot of women playing what have traditionally been seen as "men's" sports face. We still have referees over here who patronize women players, insist on coaching them despite the fact that they are National D1 Final Four and better players than he a referee, and make "safety" based decisions that don't apply to the men's games they do.

The dynamic, therefore, is different when you have a male referee doing the top tier women's games. Do I think the referee is sexist? No. Is there risk that blowing this off as a simple accident and no biggie could look like demeaning the women's game? Yes.

No win situation for any of them.

crossref
20-11-18, 14:11
Good post

VM75
04-12-18, 21:12
I'm wary to tread in here, but...

This is the top tier of domestic Women's Football, a game that still struggles to get taken seriously. It's an issue that a lot of women playing what have traditionally been seen as "men's" sports face. We still have referees over here who patronize women players, insist on coaching them despite the fact that they are National D1 Final Four and better players than he a referee, and make "safety" based decisions that don't apply to the men's games they do.

The dynamic, therefore, is different when you have a male referee doing the top tier women's games. Do I think the referee is sexist? No. Is there risk that blowing this off as a simple accident and no biggie could look like demeaning the women's game? Yes.

No win situation for any of them.

Maybe next time they should have a Twerking competition ? :rc:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-46435585/ballon-d-or-host-s-awkward-moment-with-first-ever-female-winner

damo
06-12-18, 10:12
Yes, it does , you don't get it !
It's the opposite to what you said .

Forgetting his coin was a mistake, that could happen to anyone (we have all forgotten stuff)

What was unprofessional was what happened next .. making the captains play RPS
I don't really agree. RPS is fine on a one off occasion. Forgetting the coin is the greater sin.

crossref
06-12-18, 10:12
I don't really agree. RPS is fine on a one off occasion. Forgetting the coin is the greater sin.

No, it was the RPS .. Simon's post 63 explains it perfectly

Dickie E
06-12-18, 10:12
here's the bit that gets me.

Let's say its a women's 7s game in Dubai - New Zealand v USA - and Rasta is the ref. Rasta forgets his coin and does RPS.

Would we expect a public response from Paddy along the lines of:

Paddy O'Brien told The Times that the Rasivhenge's mistake was "a moment of madness".

He added: "The referee forgot his coin and in that moment, in a TV game, he was really pushed for time.

"He should have been more prepared, he should have had a coin. It was disappointing, it's not appropriate, it's very unprofessional."

damo
06-12-18, 10:12
here's the bit that gets me.

Let's say its a women's 7s game in Dubai - New Zealand v USA - and Rasta is the ref. Rasta forgets his coin and does RPS.

Would we expect a public response from Paddy along the lines of:

Paddy O'Brien told The Times that the Rasivhenge's mistake was "a moment of madness".

He added: "The referee forgot his coin and in that moment, in a TV game, he was really pushed for time.

"He should have been more prepared, he should have had a coin. It was disappointing, it's not appropriate, it's very unprofessional."
I would expect not.

In my view any referee manager who was once a referee should to bat any questions away with a bit of levity. Then in private he would have a quiet word with the ref concerned.

SimonSmith
06-12-18, 13:12
Given Paddy has hung referees out to dry previously, yes I can see that happening.

As I said earlier (and as Crossref reiterated) this isn't just about the mechanics of forgetting the coin. It's about a wider set of dynamics.

crossref
06-12-18, 13:12
here's the bit that gets me.

Let's say its a women's 7s game in Dubai - New Zealand v USA - and Rasta is the ref. Rasta forgets his coin and does RPS.

Would we expect a public response from Paddy along the lines of:

Paddy O'Brien told The Times that the Rasivhenge's mistake was "a moment of madness".

He added: "The referee forgot his coin and in that moment, in a TV game, he was really pushed for time.

"He should have been more prepared, he should have had a coin. It was disappointing, it's not appropriate, it's very unprofessional."

Any referee with common sense would understand that RPS was completely inappropriate in that situation and would borrow or fetch a coin , and the whole story would be a self deprecating anecdote the ref could tell at his own expense .. how he forgot his coun and made himself look foolish (rather tjan making the captains look foolish)

Phil E
06-12-18, 14:12
Any referee with common sense would understand that RPS was completely inappropriate in that situation and would borrow or fetch a coin , and the whole story would be a self deprecating anecdote the ref could tell at his own expense .. how he forgot his coun and made himself look foolish (rather tjan making the captains look foolish)

Hmmm passive aggressive statement. Anyone who disagrees with you on this has no common sense? :chin:
You have your opinion on this, others have their own. Doesn't mean they are wrong.

crossref
06-12-18, 16:12
Every post is just someones opinion, isn't it ?

But yes, my opinion is that common sense would tell you it's not appropriate to play RPS in a high profile women's game on TV, and common sense is to borrow a coin

So you really disagree ?

thepercy
06-12-18, 17:12
Every post is just someones opinion, isn't it ?

But yes, my opinion is that common sense would tell you it's not appropriate to play RPS in a high profile women's game on TV, and common sense is to borrow a coin

So you really disagree ?

I think the problem with your approach is when you write "any ref with common sense" agrees with me, and if you don't then you lack common sense.

DocY
06-12-18, 17:12
I think the problem with your approach is when you write "any ref with common sense" agrees with me, and if you don't then you lack common sense.

I lack common sense.

crossref
06-12-18, 19:12
I think the problem with your approach is when you write "any ref with common sense" agrees with me, and if you don't then you lack common sense.

Well, if you make the captains in high profile TV game play RPS because you forgot your coin , I would say that you do lack common sense. Yes. Common sense is to borrow a coin

Dickie E
06-12-18, 20:12
As I said earlier (and as Crossref reiterated) this isn't just about the mechanics of forgetting the coin. It's about a wider set of dynamics.

Indeed. Because the referee manager was non-male, I wonder if she felt the need to express such outrage. You know, just to show the sisterhood that she had a pair.

thepercy
06-12-18, 20:12
Well, if you make the captains in high profile TV game play RPS because you forgot your coin , I would say that you do lack common sense. Yes. Common sense is to borrow a coin

See, I would think improvising a quick solution, would also qualify as common sense. But we disagree, so its not as "common" as either of us would hope/wish.

crossref
06-12-18, 20:12
here's the bit that gets me.

Let's say its a women's 7s game in Dubai - New Zealand v USA - and Rasta is the ref. Rasta forgets his coin and does RPS.

Would we expect a public response from Paddy along the lines of:

Paddy O'Brien told The Times that the Rasivhenge's mistake was "a moment of madness".

He added: "The referee forgot his coin and in that moment, in a TV game, he was really pushed for time.

"He should have been more prepared, he should have had a coin. It was disappointing, it's not appropriate, it's very unprofessional."

It was PHIL NEVILLE who said all that , not the referee manager .. as my post 57 above

crossref
06-12-18, 21:12
Indeed. Because the referee manager was non-male, I wonder if she felt the need to express such outrage. You know, just to show the sisterhood that she had a pair.

The referee manager Joanna Stimpson merely said ahe was disappointed.

It was Phil Neville who went further with the mome t of madneas stuff. Phil Neville gets the issues

See#57

Some stereotyping on your behalf ? You owe her an apology :-)

and nealty demonstrate that you don't get the issue

Dickie E
06-12-18, 21:12
The referee manager Joanna Stimpson merely said ahe was disappointed.

It was Phil Neville who went further with the mome t of madneas stuff. Phil Neville gets the issues

See#57

Some stereotyping on your behalf ? You owe her an apology :-)

and nealty demonstrate that you don't get the issue

I can only see Anthony Chapman's article in the Sun which is unequivocal. I dont subscribe to the Times so I can't read your attachment in #57.

Certainly, if the Sun has it wrong, then I will form a different opinion.

The BBC attributes the comments to the referee manager too

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46202509

SimonSmith
07-12-18, 01:12
Does that actually make any difference? I'm interested.

crossref
07-12-18, 07:12
The point is, do you read that quote and think - she is a woman , she is growing a pair for the sisterhood

Or do you read that quote and think - she is a high level referee manager that seems a very unlikely thing for her to say.

I traced it back.

Did that referee think, subconsciously or explicitly - it's just a woman's game, no Biggie, I will make them play RPS

Dickie E
07-12-18, 09:12
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/are-male-referees-too-lenient-with-female-footballers-6h6mf0t9h

crossref, do me a favour please and copy & paste this article. I can't read it because I don't have a subscription. I've done a google on Phil Neville and can't find any other attribution to him on the RPS incident.

Pinky
07-12-18, 14:12
There has been some press speculation that the ref has previous with RPS, and I understand that although he originally appealed the sanction, he has since withdrawn his appeal.

This made it on to the BBC TV satirical news quiz Have I Got News For You, so not entirely sure the whole incident paints anyone in a good light, except for the captains of the teams who just go on with what the ref asked.

crossref
07-12-18, 19:12
crossref, do me a favour please and copy & paste this article. I can't read it because I don't have a subscription. I've done a google on Phil Neville and can't find any other attribution to him on the RPS incident.

I pasted it in poat #57

- The repetition in rhe middle of the quote is a photo caption
- it was my BOLD
- tbh I could see how the BBC and the sun attributed the wholw quote to Stimpson, in a quick glance at rhe Times article it was an easy mistake to make .
- except that the journaliat should stop and think .. did she really say that ?? And them look again

So far as I can tell EVERY media report on the incident is sourced feom that Times article originally

Marc Wakeham
10-12-18, 19:12
Phil Neville has not bathed himself in glory with some of his comments in the past. Not sure he and common sense are well acquainted.

Probably sees this as a chance to ingratiate him self with the "right people". Not sure that Neville "gets" anything.