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crossref
03-03-19, 17:03
Red kicks the ball towards the Blue goal-line.
A Blue defender with one foot on the goal line picks up the ball which was in motion within the field of play and grounds the ball in-goal.

Decision ?

Pinky
03-03-19, 17:03
Depends whether it go to the plane of the goal line or not. If so then put in goal by red and 22 DO. If not taken in by blue and 5m attacking scrum

crossref
03-03-19, 17:03
"Within the field of play" means it hadnt crossed the plane..

Treadmore
03-03-19, 17:03
22 DO

Probably, according to the law exam...

crossref
03-03-19, 17:03
22 DO

Probably, according to the law exam...

:biggrin: is that what you think the right answer is, or what you guess the law exam says ?

Christy
03-03-19, 17:03
Scrum for me .

Flish
03-03-19, 18:03
Isn’t that taken back by blue so scrum 5 now?

Decorily
03-03-19, 18:03
Isn’t that taken back by blue so scrum 5 now?

Yes....now it is.

tewdric
03-03-19, 18:03
22 DO - if the players foot is in goal then they are in goal. Makes for a common sense decision too.

Decorily
03-03-19, 19:03
22 DO - if the players foot is in goal then they are in goal. Makes for a common sense decision too.
Yes the player is in ingoal...but they have taken the ball back in so scrum 5.

tewdric
03-03-19, 19:03
But they are in goal when they catch it, so haven't taken it in.

ChuckieB
03-03-19, 19:03
Was part of the law clarification guidelines 5-2016 that arose from the changes to touch definitions

Decorily
03-03-19, 19:03
But they are in goal when they catch it, so haven't taken it in.
They are in goal but the ball was not when caught/picked up so they have taken it back. 5m scrum

Flish
03-03-19, 19:03
But they are in goal when they catch it, so haven't taken it in.

Same as touch, if your foot is on the line you are deemed to have taken it into touch, not your ball, same logic here

Decorily
03-03-19, 19:03
I suspect (given the original poster)and the fact that the question mentions that the ball was still in motion that the Law Exam site is outdated and incorrect and a point is being made to reinforce an argument being made elsewhere! !

crossref
03-03-19, 19:03
I suspect (given the original poster)and the fact that the question mentions that the ball was still in motion that the Law Exam site is outdated and incorrect and a point is being made to reinforce an argument being made elsewhere! !

well, also, before accusing WR of a mistake, I wanted to be double sure that what I thought was the answer (5m scrum) was actually the correct one..

it is , and WR have made a mistake

tewdric
03-03-19, 20:03
The law still says if any part of a player is in goal then they are regarded as being in goal. They can't have taken it in by that logic so the "natural justice" common sense decision of rewarding the skill and accuracy with a 22 is surely the right one?

Treadmore
03-03-19, 20:03
:biggrin: is that what you think the right answer is, or what you guess the law exam says ?

I had to fudge the answer to pass that section ;-)

Treadmore
03-03-19, 20:03
The law still says if any part of a player is in goal then they are regarded as being in goal. They can't have taken it in by that logic so the "natural justice" common sense decision of rewarding the skill and accuracy with a 22 is surely the right one?

Or reward the skill and accuracy of the kicker who didn’t put it in-goal?

Christy
03-03-19, 20:03
The law still says if any part of a player is in goal then they are regarded as being in goal. They can't have taken it in by that logic so the "natural justice" common sense decision of rewarding the skill and accuracy with a 22 is surely the right one?


Hi tewdric.
The player being ( in goal ) .
Is not the same as the ball being ( in goal )

If a defender with 1 foot in goal / on goal line & 1 foot in field of play .
He is deemed to be in goal .
If he catches or picks up a ball that has not crossed the goal line .
That same player , if he decides to ground the ball in goal ,
He is deemed to of taken the ball into in goal .
This is what the law states .

As a referee , i would suggest not to use rewarding a skill set of a player or team .
As a thought process of what makes natural justice / common sense.
Its easier to use the laws .

The only time this is different . ( the law bit )
Is if a player making a mark from opponents kick , inside his own 22 with 1 foot other side of 22.
If this ball is caught .( before it crosses the 22 )
It is deemed to be caught inside his 22 & therefore he can now have a 22 drop out .
Hope that helps .

Decorily
03-03-19, 20:03
Hi tewdric.

The only time this is different . ( the law bit )
Is if a player making a mark from opponents kick , inside his own 22 with 1 foot other side of 22.
If this ball is caught .( before it crosses the 22 )
It is deemed to be caught inside his 22 & therefore he can now have a 22 drop out .
Hope that helps .
No....I'm afraid you're incorrect.
The 22 is treated the same as the goal line in this regard.

Christy
03-03-19, 21:03
I believe otherwise .
Ill take a further look in a while .

Treadmore
03-03-19, 21:03
No....I'm afraid you're incorrect.
The 22 is treated the same as the goal line in this regard.

that's another one in the law exam (i know :-) )

Christy
03-03-19, 21:03
PRINCIPLE

A means of stopping play within a player’s own 22 by directly catching an opponent’s kick.
http://www.rugbyrefs.com/images/laws/mark-en.jpgCLAIMING A MARK


To claim a mark, a player must:
http://www.rugbyrefs.com/images/elements/playicon.png
Have at least one foot on or behind their own 22-metre line when catching the ball or when landing having caught it in the air; andhttp://www.rugbyrefs.com/images/elements/playicon.png
Catch a ball that has reached the plane of the 22-metre line directly from an opponent’s kick before it touches the ground or another player; andhttp://www.rugbyrefs.com/images/elements/playicon.png
Simultaneously call “mark”.

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/images/elements/playicon.png
A player may claim a mark even if the ball hits a goal post or crossbar before being caught.http://www.rugbyrefs.com/images/elements/playicon.png
When a mark is called correctly, the referee immediately stops the game and awards a free-kick to the team in possession.
A mark may not be claimed from a kick-off or a restart kick after a score.RESTARTING PLAY AFTER A MARK


The player who claimed the mark takes the free-kick (in accordance with Law 20).
If the player is unable to take the free-kick within one minute, a scrum is awarded to the team in possession.
The free-kick is taken at the following locations:

Place of the mark
Location of free-kick


Within the 22
At the place of the mark but at least five metres from the goal line, in line with the place of the mark.


Within the in-goal
On the five-metre line in line with the place of the mark.



Hi decorily.
Yes you are correct .

Decorily
03-03-19, 21:03
[LIST]PRINCIPLE


Hi decorily.
Yes you are correct .
Thanks

tewdric
03-03-19, 22:03
As I begin my journey it strikes me that being able to sensibly adjudicate the grey areas is a good skill to have, but I'll worry about getting the basics right first! :)

Decorily
03-03-19, 22:03
As I begin my journey it strikes me that being able to sensibly adjudicate the grey areas is a good skill to have, but I'll worry about getting the basics right first! :)
Well said....

Edit. Know the law....more importantly know what the players are trying to achieve.....and most importantly know when to ignore the laws.

Rich_NL
04-03-19, 00:03
Also, most often you're chasing behind the ball and won't be able to see whether it's crossed the plane or not (it's harder to judge than the touchlin. And neither will most players, many of whom don't know the laws anyway :)

crossref
04-03-19, 07:03
Also, most often you're chasing behind the ball and won't be able to see whether it's crossed the plane or not (it's harder to judge than the touchlin. And neither will most players, many of whom don't know the laws anyway :)

But on the other hand if you an AR you will often be excellently positioned to see the various planes and if you were an AR who didn't understand the importance of the plane, you would be a very poor AR indeed. At any level of game